shimano tld 20/30 II rebuild

[alantani]

i bought a new camera a while back. it's a nikon coolpix 4200. i can get as close as an inch and a half and stay in focus. i also just yesterday figured how to color balance the photo's for incandescent light to get rid of the orange tint to all the photos.

here's the schematic for the shimano tld 20 two speed.

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishin...9830571880.pdf

http://mikesreelrepair.com/schematic...2020%202sp.pdf

and here's the reel.



i've got four of these. they do double duty for local albacore and san diego long range. and they've killed alot of fish. straight out of the box, the tld 20 two speed is perfectly servicable. an oversized handle helps tremendously, and several manufacturers offer one. the remaining upgrades are nice, but not essential. the rebuild you're about to see is tedious, but not overly difficult. keep everything in order, stay organized and you should be fine.

let's start on the left side first. back out the cross bar bolts (b) (key #193) and grease the screw holes.



now to the right side plate. remove the pre-program dial (key #151), the dial spring (key #152), the lever shaft body and "o" seal as a unit (key #154 and 153), and the drag control lever (key #155). leave the leve thrust washer (key # 196) in place.



remove the lever quadrant (key #236) and screws (key #158, 159 and 161).



flip the reel over and remove the two side plate screw (B)'s (key #406).



flip the reel back upright and remove the five side plate screw (A)'s (key #164)



separate the frame, spool and right side plate.



take apart the rod clamp assembly (key #224, 225, 226, 227), grease the bolts and reassemble the rod clamp assembly.



lightly grease the clicker assembly.



grease the cross bar bolt (A)'s (key #189).



the frame is done. now on to the spool. the first thing that i noted was that the cooling shield (spool cap) was loose.



remove pinion gear (A) (key #201), pinion gear (B) (key #202), the cooling shield (key #171), and the drag plate assembly (key #174, 246, 172, and 203). note the excess grease on the drag washer.



remove the cross pin (key #229), the click gear (key #183) and screws (key #184).





remove the main shaft assembly. i've put it back together so that you can see how it fits together when it's actually inside the spool, then taken it apart again.





note the stock "()()" configuration of the preload spring B's (belleville pressure washers).



i pried off the shields of all three spool bearings (key #570 and 569), cleaned all the grease out with carb cleaner and compressed air, and relubed the bearings with corrosion x. as discussed previously, i believe that shimano has the right idea regarding the use of open bearings.



i've lined everything up again so that you can see the new configuration for the main shaft. i'll remove a bearing thrust washer (key #42A) and add one extra preload spring B (key #40A).



the new configuration for the preload spring B's is "((())".



install the click gear (key #183) and click gear screws (key #184).



pull out the drag washer (key #246).



clean off the excess grease.



apply a light coat of grease to the spool and both sides of the drag washer.





clean off all the excess grease.





install the right spool bearings (key #569) and pressure release spring (key #176).



you will notice a great deal of play in the drag plate assembly. we're going to fix this. first, remove the seal lock (key #174).



the drag plate assembly separates into four pieces.



apply 4 layers of masking tape to the back of the drag plate (key #245), then cut out the center hole.



put the drag plate assembly back together. the seal lock will have to be pushed into position with a flat screwdriver.



take a very sharp knife and cut the tape around the pre-load spring A (key #172).



peel up the excess masking tape.

[alantani]

install the drag plate assembly.



install the cooling shield (key #171) using the special wrench (key #146). Remember, it came loose from the factory.



install the cross bar (key #229).



install the spool assembly back into the frame. note that some older reels only fit in ONE way. if you find that the spool does not slide back and forth easily, pull the spool out and rotate the main shaft 180 degrees. this works!



this is the right main side plate bearing (key #571). this bearing is often the first to rust. let's pull it out and pack it with grease.



remove the push button shield (key #91) and screws (key #90).



ok, here's the tricky part. you need to remove the handle bolt plate assembly. back out the handle bold plate screw (key #92), but leave everything else in place.



place your right index finger over the screw (key #92) and slide plate spring (key #93). push the slide plate (key #94) "in" and lift off the handle bolt plate assembly as a unit. don't let the spring go "boing!"



set the assembly down in a safe place.



remove the handle bolt assembly as a unit (key #69, 147 and 14.



remove the handle assembly (key #471) and drive shaft shield (key #150).

now carefully lift the side plate, leaving the drive shaft and gear assembly on your working surface. please resist the temptation to disturb the drive shaft and gear assembly.





now, who says that these old penn wrenches are useless? i've bent the end of this one and turned it into a bearing puller.



out comes the right main sideplate bearing (key #571).



here's the back side.



here's the front with the shield and retaining ring carefully removed.



the bearing was packed with grease.



the shield and retaining ring were replaced and re-installed.



re-install the drive shaft and main gear assembly.



install the drive shaft shield (key #150) and the new handle.



grease the handle arm and install the handle bolt assembly. tighten until the the handle bold aligns with the handle bolt plate (key #2A). use good mechanical judgement in tightening the handle bolt.



install the handle bolt plate assembly. take care to cover and not lose the spring.



install the push button shield.



check the push "low" button shaft to see that it locks into low gear properly. if not, the push button shield screws (key #90) are probably too tight. back off the screws a quarter turn at a time until the push button functions properly.



this is a shot of the anti-reverse dog assembly. under a heavy load, this assembly may fail. it might be a good idea to keep an extra set on hand so that you can be field strip the reel and replace the dog if necessary. call shimano at (877) 577-0600 and ask for a c-lock (key #69), two dogs (key #33, a guard screw (key #167), a guard against dog (key #340), a dog spring guide (key #341) and a dog spring (key #342).





install pinion gear A and B (key #201 and 202).



install the right side plat assembly.



grease the screw holes and install the side plate screw A's (key #164).



install side plate screw B's (key #406).



install the lever quadrant (key #236) and screws (key #161, 158 and 159).



install the drag control lever (key #155) and push it to the "free" position.



install the lever shaft body (key #153 and 153) and dial spring (key #152).



install the preprogram dial (key #151) and you're done!

[thunnus]

Hi Alan, thank you so much for your post, it's really helpful....

I'd like to ask a few question about rebuild of TLDII-20:

- The masking tape, does it suppose to improve the drag performance ?

- The spring ring configuration, from "()()" to new configuration "((())", does it also for boosting the drag ? It seems that you added 1pc of new spring, where can I buy the new one ? Can we use any spring or must buy part from Shimano.... ?

- I also read rebuild of TLD20/25 and I saw the stainless steel drag washer is bigger than TLDII-20. The metal washer is completely covered the carbon fiber washer. Is it possible to change / up-grade to a bigger metal washer ? Where's to buy for the up-grade metal washer ? If I did that, do you have idea how many lbs the improvement of the drag ?

- I've read that anti reverse dog of TLDII-20 failed sometimes. Do you have solution for this ? Or in other words, how to strenghten the dog ? Is it possible to add another one, so it has 2 dogs ? Is it possible also to add 'one way roller bearing' ?

- What is the aftermarket handle you use to replace the ori one ? How much does it cost ? Is it made from aluminium (the metal part) ? How heavy is it if compare to the original ?

- Do you know aluminum body from Tiburon that specifically for replacing the graphite body of TLDII-20 ? How much does it cost and how heavy is it ?

Wah lau, so sorry for showering you too many questions...... But, I need this infos. And you're the right man at the right place to answer my questions.

I'm rebuild my TLDII-20 right now (because seeing your post)
And I intend to use it for jigging reel. I find it's more convenience to use 2 speed reel in jigging, not too tiring. But, weight is important factor here. I need it after rebuild with power handle, etc. the weight not exceed than 1kg.......

Thank you so much.

[alantani]

the masking tape is a little funky. i have a stainless steel washer for the single speed shimano tld 20/25. tape works there as well. the purpose is to keep the pressure plate at a straight angle. this allows a higher strike setting before losing freespool. you can get the pressure plate much closer to the drag washer before it comes in contact. even if you use an aftermarket pressure plate, it may still be loose.

in changing the belleville configuration from "|()()" to "(()))", i simply add another shimano belleville. the stack of sprins is now much stiffer and the drag pressure increased much more quickly when you push the lever forward. the drag ramps up immediately.

there are still a few aftermarket drag plates available. shimano sued to stop production because they were concerned that the increased drag pressure would result in more cases of frame failure. soon afterwards, my rebuild post came out, and sales of the $20 pressure plate dropped to zero. you could suddenly increase the drag range dramatically with a 50 cent washer and 4 strips of masking tape. either method will give you the same 25-30% increase in drag range.

there is absolutely nothing you can do about the anti-reverse system. i think that failures are rare. i have personally only seen one. i would be more worried about the frame than the anti-reverse system.

the handle that you saw in my post was made by local machine shop. it's stainless steel and delron. not polished at all, but very tough, much larger and heavier than the original.

i am very familiar with the tiburon and wilfish frames. surprisingly, there is not that much weight difference between the aluminum and graphite frames. check out the tiburon website for specs. note that you will be keeping the original side plate, so you will still have an anti-reverse system at risk. also, the tld 20II frame is stronger than the tld 30II frame. you should be good for up to 20#'s of drag with a standard tld 20 II. alan

[thunnus]

Thank you so much for your precious input Alan....

I think 20#'s of drag will be suffice for me, no need to do for the up-grade drag. And your statement that TLD 20 II frame is stronger than TLD 30 II is make sense, because it's share the same frame thickness fairly but in shorther span of lenght, sure it would be stronger..... I would consider Tiburon frame as well, since you mentioned its weight is not much different with the original graphite one.

Once again, thanks a lot......

cheers,
Lod.

[thunnus]

The TLD20II rebuild process is done !

I did the masking tape trick and all the steps of Alan recommendation....
Excep the 'belleville' trick cause I can't find the spring here and also the handle. I use my own Stella T handle and made the handle stem by my-self (from brass). Here's the pics.......

[alantani]

you should still have an increase in your "max drag at strike before losing freespool." have you checked yet? and how much freespool do you have? thanks! alan

[thunnus]

you should still have an increase in your "max drag at strike before losing freespool." have you checked yet? and how much freespool do you have? thanks! alan

Alan, to be frank I can't catch the question.... Wud you please define it, so I can understand ?

Btw, I did test it. And here's the way I test the reel; I put lever drag at strike position and adjust the preset drag. So, the result is, the spool is free to move while the lever drag is still at the strike position. Then if I push the lever drag to FULL position, the drag is about 10#. This position of preset drag is become a 'reference' now.

From the 'reference' point above, I turn the preset drag clockwise (tightening) 60 seconds (360 degree). This yield the drag to approx. 24-26# at strike position. This is the set-up I'll use. I'm using PE5 lines....

p.s: I just did the masking tape trick, not added any spring in the belleville configuration.

In all, I feel that the increment of drag by adjusting the preset drag seems a bit 'longer' or 'finer'....... is it ?

Thanks.

[alantani]

the term "max drag at strike" refers to the maximum drag setting that you can use when the lever is in the strike position, while still being able to push the lever back to "free" and have the spool spin freely. the stock unmodified reel can typically deliver 17-18#'s of drag at strike before losing freespool. modified reels can deliver 20-24#'s of drag. the problem is that the frame might fail at these higher settings.

at these typical settings, you simply have too much reel and too little drag. tragically, i think the tld 20 II is reel is best suited for straight 40# mono and 12-16#'s of drag (30-40% drag setting). i would go as high as 80# spectra and a 60# topshot with 20#'s of drag (33% of line weight) on the narrower tld 20 II because i think the 20II frame is stronger than the 30II frame. i would fish the tld 30 II with straight 50# mono and 15-17#'s of drag (30-33%). i would go as high as 80# spectra and a 60# topshot with 18# of drag (30%). i have seen several broken tld 30 II frames, which is the reason that i'd like you to stay under 20#'s of drag at strike for this wider reel.

as far as the adjustability of the preset knob, it should not have changed if you did not change the belleville configuration. alan

[ShimanoSay]

Hi Alantani ,

I'm a new member into this website. Saw your rebuild of TLD-20-2 . Very interested in the long handle .Any idea how much it cost including shipping to Singapore ?

Tks ,
ShimanoSay

[alantani]

the handles are $37 plus about $10 in shipping from the US to singapore.

[ShimanoSay]

Hi alantani ,

Appreciate your speed reply . It's within my budget. do you have any specific procedure to excute the sale . do you accept Paypal? If so , I need yr email address. Pls advise .

[ShimanoSay]

Sorry ,

Is there Carbontex drag for TLD-20-2 ? I would like 1 pc too . Tell me the final cost .

[ShimanoSay]

Sorry any updates ?

[DaFrogman]

Dude,

Try sending Alan a PM instead of doing this negotiation in the public forum. Also, Alan may be busy as he actually has a full time job other than reel repair and modification.

Also, the TLD20II already uses a carbonfibre drag washer so you do not really need to upgrade to a Carbontex version. All you need to do is grease the washer with a suitable Shimano drag grease or Cals Drag Grease as Alan has illustrated so well in this post.

Good luck dude.

Regards,

Saimee

[ShimanoSay]

That 's an affirmative , big brother . Tks for the Drag washer advice too .