What is the use of greater than PE-6 for popping?

[otolite@hotmail.fr]

Hi,

A trully naive question.
If you cast from a clean boat, and you can take great care of your lines...etc, it seems from theoretical calculation that a 60 pounds braided line (eg power pro), with a dirty knot leaving 75% of the nominal strenght of the line, still displays more strenght than can handle any spinning reel/popping rod on earth (or sea, I should say). Abrasion resistance of PE-6 to 12 is (almost) equally bad.
So what is the use of popping with anything greater than PE-6? (things are different wen you cast from the shore, where you always damage your line in a way or another) .
Thanks for your advices.

[seamonster]

If using 60 lbs line, the drag setting is 9 kg. This is based on setting the drag at 1/3 the breaking strength of the line.

I believe this is due to several factors like :

1) there is spool inertial to overcome when the fish starts to pull line from the reel (if drag is set at 9kg + initial inertial to overcome then the drag is higher than 9kg at the very moment the fish starts to pull line),

2) the drag setting will increase due to prolong runs that will heat up the drag washers,

3) the drag setting will increase when the reel is baking under the sun,

4) the drag setting will increase when you have half a spool of line compared to a full spool (this is why we need to back off our drag setting when we have a lot of line out),

5) the line has a lower breaking strength than actual rated poundage due to undetected manufacturing defects,

6) the breaking strength of line will deteriorate over time due to wear and tear, exposure to sun, etc etc.

7) possibility of jammed spool.

I reckon the manufacturers have taken all these factors and maybe somemore into consideration to recommend setting drag at 1/3 of published rating of the line.

So if you are fishing PE8 (100lbs) then your drag setting is 15kg at 1/3 the breaking strength. 100lbs/2.2 = 45.455kg, 45.455kg/3 = 15.152 kg.

Maybe bros with more experience out there have a better explanation to share.

cheers
Amos

[otolite@hotmail.fr]

Hi Seamonster,

First, thanks a lot for your answers. I was not aware of the 1/3 rule, which explains everything. Now, do you think that the stronger the line, the greater the price, could be another explanation (from the manufacturer point of view) for this very conservative 1/3 rule?
Points 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7 make a lot of sense. No idea about point 3. I strongly doubt about point 2: only special "carbon" breaking systems (used, to my limited knowledge, in some race cars) increase their efficiency with heat (might be wrong, but that's what I heard).

Glad to know more...

Otolite

[seamonster]

Originally Posted by otolite@hotmail.fr

Hi Seamonster,

First, thanks a lot for your answers. I was not aware of the 1/3 rule, which explains everything. Now, do you think that the stronger the line, the greater the price, could be another explanation (from the manufacturer point of view) for this very conservative 1/3 rule?
Points 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7 make a lot of sense. No idea about point 3. I strongly doubt about point 2: only special "carbon" breaking systems (used, to my limited knowledge, in some race cars) increase their efficiency with heat (might be wrong, but that's what I heard).

Glad to know more...

Otolite

Hi Otolite,

You are most welcome. First of all, many people often have the idea that bigger and stronger is better; ie bigger cars with stronger engines, bigger house with stronger foundations, bigger breasts with stronger suction .....

In this case for GT fishing I will generally agree that stronger IS better, although it isn't always the rule of the day and pretty much dependent on the places you fish. But when you are fishing at the "suicide zones" even 130 lbs is not gonna stop a big bad momma GT from getting away.

As a general guide line, scientist says that a fish can pull 3 times it's own weight in the water.. Let stop and think about this; 3 f#%king times!!!! So theoretically a 70 KG GT has the pulling power of 210 KG (462 lbs)... Although I believe that this is true, I also believe that GT achieve this amazing prowess only for short burst duration, which gives us some fighting chance of landing a trophy fish.

I think that manufacturers spent tons of money in R&D, production (machinery, labor) and advertising etc etc, to justify their price tag. I think we can do some basic comparison with regards to other materials also, stainless steel is more expensive than iron, aramid (kevlar) is more expensive than fiber glass and the list goes on and on. It seems that we are somehow hardwired/brainwashed to believe that stronger is more expensive.

For point 3 (under the sun argument), things expand when heated. When the thickness of the drag discs expand due to heat, it will cause the discs to be packed more tightly together, therefore increasing drag. It's the same thing as you turning the knob on the spool to pack the discs more tightly together when you want to increase your drag settings.

With regards to point 2, when the fish is taking line, it is actually causing the drag discs to rub against each other, therefore causing friction. Friction produces heat, heat causes expansion, expanded discs are packed more tightly together, increasing drag.... So when you add up all the drag increments from 1-7 it seems pretty logical to set the drag at 1/3 the breaking strength.

Race cars on the other hand wants to make sure that expansion of the brake calipers, brake pads and brake discs are down to a minimum, note : increase efficiency with LOSING heat, and therefore are using ceramic (not carbon) brakes, because ceramics dissipate (lose) heat better. So that it will not affect the travel of the brake pedal when depressed to slow down the car.
For example, when you depress 20 cm of your brake pedal, the brake calipers move 5 cm to clam down the brake discs generating 500 Newtons of braking force, but due to expansion of the caliper, pads and discs caused by heat (brake pads rubbing against brake discs), now when you depress 20 cm of your pedal, the brakes doesn't generate 500 Newtons of braking force anymore because the tolerance of the calipers, pads and discs have changed. Can you imagine the travel of your brake pedal changing every time you want to apply the SAME braking force to slow down the car.....

It certainly has been interesting that you mentioned about race car brakes. I do go for track racing often before I sold my car (hehe... too bashed up and abused from racing). The very first time I did track racing, I did it with stock braking systems, very bad idea..... my brake discs warped and changed shape under extreme heat during hard braking. Since then I've changed to racing brake units that can lose heat fast to prevent the discs warping. Again, the racing units are "stronger" compared to stock units, and stronger means you have to pay thru your nose... I think Porsche and Lamborghini are charging about almost 10000 Euros to upgrade stock units into ceramics racing units.

It seems we have an insatiable addiction for speed and power; racing and GT popping.

Cheers!!!!