Shimano Popping rod...

[physlo]

Originally Posted by jason

Let go of your 4000P then u have money liao.....



Cheers
jason

Nah...stealing your car rims would be a better option..lol

[cudas]

Now that the rods are finally here, lets
hear some reviews on how the rods performed.

[Sportfisherman]

Old blanks and new lighter duty componentries . In my opinion , the distance from the gimbal to the reel seat is a little too long for average Asian anglers but one can always cut it to suit .

Jon .

[JIGW]

The blanks are designed from scratch to suit modern popping styles, definitely not old or OEM designed blanks.

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

Old blanks and new lighter duty componentries . In my opinion , the distance from the gimbal to the reel seat is a little too long for average Asian anglers but one can always cut it to suit .

Jon .

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by JIGW

The blanks are designed from scratch to suit modern popping styles, definitely not old or OEM designed blanks.

Certainly doesn't look and feel like a completely new one , still bend all the way from the foregrip when loaded .

Jon .

[physlo]

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

Certainly doesn't look and feel like a completely new one , still bend all the way from the foregrip when loaded .

Jon .

Pak Jon,
From what i know, most of the popping rods are meant to be that way. If not, then they are fast action.

You can always custom built a calstar or Gusa if you like fast action rods.

Regards
physlo

[stickbom!]

Jon, I've fished some of the OCEA GT rods and they are nowhere as stiff as the new Caranx range. By the way, I had the chance to play with the newer rods before it was launched and the blank designer had a bunch of raw blanks for each model. If Caranx was using old OCEA blanks, I doubt the poor chap would need to carry so many blanks with him that day.

IMHO the old OCEA GT (graphite reelseat) and the newer one with AFTCO reelseat MIGHT be using the same blank because they felt similar but I am almost 99.99% sure the Caranx isn't using the same blanks

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by stickbom!

Jon, I've fished some of the OCEA GT rods and they are nowhere as stiff as the new Caranx range. By the way, I had the chance to play with the newer rods before it was launched and the blank designer had a bunch of raw blanks for each model. If Caranx was using old OCEA blanks, I doubt the poor chap would need to carry so many blanks with him that day.

IMHO the old OCEA GT (graphite reelseat) and the newer one with AFTCO reelseat MIGHT be using the same blank because they felt similar but I am almost 99.99% sure the Caranx isn't using the same blanks

Mike ,

Must admit they are stiffer blank but look very much the same , may be more graphite in the blank but still retain lots of Ocea GT ( newer model ) characteristics , the old Ocea GT is a little different actioned than the newer Ocea GT , IMHO .

Ocea GT comes 3 models , I suspect they originate from one blank cropped to different lengths . This Kaibutsu rods are made from different blanks but construction wise , they share much the same of the Ocea GT blank , IMHO .

Physlo ,

Calstar blanks are for " rail " rod , can't be compared to proper GT blank . Never once I will consider Calstar blank as anything else .

Jon .

[JIGW]

Hi Jon,
For a butt joint rod not to bend even the slightest bit at the front grip section is a rod that will accumulate all the stress at the joint of the top section, there is no need to say what will happen after repeated use under high drag settings........Even your favourite brand of rods have this bend in them.

On the other hand, if what you have observed is an extreme ugly bend at the grip, I'm curious to know which Kaibutsu item did you pull on and how many kg of force did you put at the other end to get them to bend so extremely, I am 106kg, 6 ft tall yet find it hard to load the heavier models like the SM, DM and LC to such extreme and obvious bends.......Probably you have some special fighting techniques that you could share?.....I could learn a thing or two from you to use your special technique to put more hurt on the fish....

As for them being the same blank and being simply cropped, I am definite that they are not the same blank......and here's a trick thats easy enough for you to use to compare if u need more reassurance......take the kaibutsu, measure the diameter at a point of the rod, measure a distance(say 30cm) and measure the diameter there; now find the position with equivalent diameter on an Ocea GT and work out what the other diameter is at the same 30cm distance.......if the diameter is the same, then there is a prossibility that it is the same blank.......for caranx, you will not find this the case....

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

Mike ,

Must admit they are stiffer blank but look very much the same , may be more graphite in the blank but still retain lots of Ocea GT ( newer model ) characteristics , the old Ocea GT is a little different actioned than the newer Ocea GT , IMHO .

Ocea GT comes 3 models , I suspect they originate from one blank cropped to different lengths . This Kaibutsu rods are made from different blanks but construction wise , they share much the same of the Ocea GT blank , IMHO .

Physlo ,

Calstar blanks are for " rail " rod , can't be compared to proper GT blank . Never once I will consider Calstar blank as anything else .

Jon .

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by JIGW

Hi Jon,
For a butt joint rod not to bend even the slightest bit at the front grip section is a rod that will accumulate all the stress at the joint of the top section, there is no need to say what will happen after repeated use under high drag settings........Even your favourite brand of rods have this bend in them.

On the other hand, if what you have observed is an extreme ugly bend at the grip, I'm curious to know which Kaibutsu item did you pull on and how many kg of force did you put at the other end to get them to bend so extremely, I am 106kg, 6 ft tall yet find it hard to load the heavier models like the SM, DM and LC to such extreme and obvious bends.......Probably you have some special fighting techniques that you could share?.....I could learn a thing or two from you to use your special technique to put more hurt on the fish....

As for them being the same blank and being simply cropped, I am definite that they are not the same blank......and here's a trick thats easy enough for you to use to compare if u need more reassurance......take the kaibutsu, measure the diameter at a point of the rod, measure a distance(say 30cm) and measure the diameter there; now find the position with equivalent diameter on an Ocea GT and work out what the other diameter is at the same 30cm distance.......if the diameter is the same, then there is a prossibility that it is the same blank.......for caranx, you will not find this the case....

JigW ,

I am not talking about loading it severely , the load was minimal and one can see distinctively the bend start the butt joint , we did this by mounting a reel on each rod and run the line thru the guides so I wud say as close a situation as real fishing .

Let's not compare the size of the angler for the Australian guy who was holding the rod was a former Olympian Waterpolo athlete and he has more than I ever will , he just lift the rod and I hold the line and we both observe the bent which start from the stripping guide . Not sure though which rod but we chose the heaviest rated one in the shop .

The topic of cropped blank is not meant for Kaibutsu but for the Ocea GT rods and I mentioned this . I will be fishing with a guy who has a Kaibutsu later in the month , will compare side by side with my rods and get back to you then , however don't you agree the blank has the same finishes as that of Ocea GT with all the graphite wrap surfaces ?

Jon .

[JIGW]

The Dialflash-X tape design that is copied by many now was a Shimano invention way back in the past, rods like the scorpion bass rod and even the Bassterra bass rods feature this type construction, does not in anyway mean that if it looks the same outside, it is constructed the same inside.......

As for the action, if you like something faster, pull on the faster action Surface Monster instead of the Deep Monster; even poor Mikey had to flex his muscles a bit to tame the rods when he tried them............I shall leave it open to those who have the rod and fished with them to gauge how similiar or different they are from the OCEA GT......

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

JigW ,

I am not talking about loading it severely , the load was minimal and one can see distinctively the bend start the butt joint , we did this by mounting a reel on each rod and run the line thru the guides so I wud say as close a situation as real fishing .

Let's not compare the size of the angler for the Australian guy who was holding the rod was a former Olympian Waterpolo athlete and he has more than I ever will , he just lift the rod and I hold the line and we both observe the bent which start from the stripping guide . Not sure though which rod but we chose the heaviest rated one in the shop .

The topic of cropped blank is not meant for Kaibutsu but for the Ocea GT rods and I mentioned this . I will be fishing with a guy who has a Kaibutsu later in the month , will compare side by side with my rods and get back to you then , however don't you agree the blank has the same finishes as that of Ocea GT with all the graphite wrap surfaces ?

Jon .

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by JIGW

The Dialflash-X tape design that is copied by many now was a Shimano invention way back in the past, rods like the scorpion bass rod and even the Bassterra bass rods feature this type construction, does not in anyway mean that if it looks the same outside, it is constructed the same inside.......

As for the action, if you like something faster, pull on the faster action Surface Monster instead of the Deep Monster; even poor Mikey had to flex his muscles a bit to tame the rods when he tried them............I shall leave it open to those who have the rod and fished with them to gauge how similiar or different they are from the OCEA GT......

JigW ,

Not sure Deep Monster or Surface Monster , so there are " faster " actioned rod in the series then ?

Jon .

[JIGW]

Surface Monster is the faster of the two.

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

JigW ,

Not sure Deep Monster or Surface Monster , so there are " faster " actioned rod in the series then ?

Jon .

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by JIGW

Surface Monster is the faster of the two.

Will check it the next time I visit the shop and let you know my opinion on this particular rod .

Jon .

[Sportfisherman]

Guys ,

The person who promised to bring his Kaibutsu rod did not turn up at our FishyGathering function but a few friends who were at the gathering have all commented of too long a handle .

I was ready to give the Kaibutsu a real test , brought my Stellas + poppers/stickbait for casting sensation although did not expect to hook up anything as our FishyGathering was conducted in an island a mere 20 minutes away from Jakarta by speedboat .

May be next time .

Jon .

[Makaira]

The point that the new Shimano popping rods have rear grips significantly longer than conventional popping rods is moot. After reading the explanations in FO & other fishing forums outlining why they were designed this way, the designers do have their point. For anglers, it is simply a matter of getting used to fishing a different style when popping with these rods. Longer rear grip for better casting distance & a lowered fighting position for more leverage on the fish sounds good to me. This design may yet become the trend of the future for all popping rods Lets wait for the verdict when enough anglers have actually used these rods & tested them on decent size fish.

[Sportfisherman]

KK ,

Remain to be seen in the next months or so after a few have tried on fish worthy in it's weight to be tested on those rods , say GT and YellowFin Tuna weighing not less than 35 kg mark .

Jon .

[Makaira]

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

KK ,

Remain to be seen in the next months or so after a few have tried on fish worthy in it's weight to be tested on those rods , say GT and YellowFin Tuna weighing not less than 35 kg mark .

Jon .

Hi Jon,

My point exactly........

Best regards,
Makaira

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by Makaira

Hi Jon,

My point exactly........

Best regards,
Makaira

KK ,

Just wondering if Leng Teck has anything to do with the design of the rod , specifically the handle ? He built me a popping rod years ago and the dandle was long in the butt and long in the foregrip , I had to cut some 6 cm of the butt to make the rod workable , mind you the quality of the windings are exceptional , just can't live with the long butt section .

Jon .

[Makaira]

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

KK ,

Just wondering if Leng Teck has anything to do with the design of the rod , specifically the handle ? He built me a popping rod years ago and the dandle was long in the butt and long in the foregrip , I had to cut some 6 cm of the butt to make the rod workable , mind you the quality of the windings are exceptional , just can't live with the long butt section .

Jon .

Hi Jon,

I seriously doubt so. Opinions differ of course, but I think it's a pity they did not tap his knowledge as imho, LT would definitely have provided constructive input. Back in the 80's, he had the opportunity to work closely with Fenwick, G.Loomis & Calstar when he was the pioneer distributor of those blanks in Singapore. Gary Loomis shares the same opinion as you do vis-a-vis his threadwork; and in particular the epoxy work. When LT gave Gary a rod customised for him at one of the ICAST shows in the US, Gary said it was the best threadwork & epoxy work he had ever seen.

As for the butt section of the rod LT being too long to your liking, perhaps more careful measurements & more input from you could have prevented that from happening. I too have one or two popping rods built in the early days that had the butt a wee bit too long. That was because when I commissioned the build, the longer butt provided better leverage for the casting action, but a pain to use in actual fishing situation. Subsequent builds were refined for a better balance of casting action & fighting the fish.

If there was any local input on the new Shimano popping rods, perhaps the reservoir casting brigade had more influence on the design than anyone else. Somehow, as I have mentioned in one of my previous posts on this topic, I think casting distance was the overriding priority when they put this rod together. I stand corrected If I am mistaken.

Best regards,
Makaira

[Sportfisherman]

KK ,

Thanks for the inputs . Let's wait till somebody post their experiences with this new rod , myself I am convinced it's gonna be too long for my gimbal set up . I use Pelagic waist harness + Manta belt , the top of the Manta belt is around my crotch .

Jon .

[Makaira]

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

KK ,

Thanks for the inputs . Let's wait till somebody post their experiences with this new rod , myself I am convinced it's gonna be too long for my gimbal set up . I use Pelagic waist harness + Manta belt , the top of the Manta belt is around my crotch .

Jon .

Perhaps the Blackmagic gimbal belt would be a better fit given the dimensions of that rod. Let's wait for the feedback from users.

[JIGW]

The black magic though a fantastic standup belt is not a good belt for jigging or popping, mainly because the pin sits far back in the slot, and anything other than with a harness setup will see the rear grip hitting the inner walls of the slot frequently, restricting freedom of movement. Also negates the effects that the radius cut gimbal was meant to bring out and the manueverbility. Low mount belts like the braid tuna belt or even the brute buster will be better.

No LT was not involved in the design, though he is an inspirtation from the Kloogmacher times till now.

As for the rod being design for reservoir casting, I certainly hope not, anyway it will be so much easier to only have that criteria to focus on, but thats not what will perform in serious popping....and I certainly hope the rod will not be relegated to just doing that.....

Originally Posted by Makaira

Perhaps the Blackmagic gimbal belt would be a better fit given the dimensions of that rod. Let's wait for the feedback from users.

[mark]

Mak.. you're such an a$$ O... pardon my french!!!

mod can just go ahead to delete my post if anyone felt offended.

Cheers