New Pro Gear Oceanis LD reel

[tmlim]

Originally Posted by stickbom!

Bludder Lim... 5 tons of fish 10 tons of people 15 tons of lines in the water... too stressful for me. :P Think I will go and try later

Bludder Mike,
the weighing machine which reported 5tons at the Causeway, also included the 3-tonner lorry too. On second thought, I will have to agree with you on the crowd. So just name the day to repeat our lucky teamwork, seminar and beer seminar.

[stickbom!]

Yes we should have another "pond raid" sometime soon Get Gary and the rest to go... slaughter the fish :P

Good one about the 3 ton lorry That was a real good one.

[tmlim]

Hi Mark,

Frankly, I don’t think I can give you any better advice for your Taiwan trip. The fact is, you’re already a very competent jigger.

If you can cope with the rough Bali’s sea, I don’t think there should be any difficulty for you to fish there. Apart from the 300m sea depth which can take you more than 10 mins to bring up a jig.

The equipment used in Taiwan should be quite similar to elsewhere. PE 4 to 5 mainline with lesser line resistance and faster sinking action, combined with 90-100 lbs FC are appropriate. You can always borrow my AG jigs to save some money. Btw when is your trip?

I feel that Dave Irving, the expatriate’s authority on jigging in Taiwan, should be a good person to approach for advice. He gave me plenty of good tips on my last trip there; if not for the bad weather and my newbie skills I would have redeemed a first class ticket from their fish market back to Spore.

You’re certainly right on feeling honor to fish with either Mr. Liu or Tang, They should be bestowed the Olympic Champions for Jigging; if there is one. However, don’t be fooled by the perception that their equipments are more superior to ours. They’re just like, getting Lance Armstrong on a mountain bike, and demoralize a good road biker in the Tour de France. As the saying goes, “It is all in the engine and technique.”

I would like to disagree with you on, the Japanese favoring their spinning reels more than the OH.

1. the spinning reels have awkward geometry and they really present a mammoth task to the reel designer. It is because the size and profile of the reel housing is not economical for solid machining and has to be die cast.

2. The asymmetric bail-arm at high cranking speed provides significant out-of-balance forces on the spool and spindle shaft, have to be carefully balanced.

3. the cranking arm offset has to be increased to avoid collision with the bail-arm. This is the cause of undesirable twisting and swinging forces applied on the rod. (see Figure)

4. the transmission of torque on the crank to spool has to be rotated through 90 deg; the use of face gear restricts higher load carrying capacities.

5. the excessive reciprocating spool which is supported by the cantilever spinning shaft has to be made thicker to handle the bending and shear loadings.

The above explained why spinning reels cost twice more than OH to produce.

Be it spinning or OH, the drag characteristic of the Japanese reels is simply remarkable as measured here:

http://www.fishingkaki.com/forum/vie...011&highlight=

This is to consider 6 carbon drag disks of Jigger 4000P (under extreme compression by star drag lever) being capable of moving relative to one another at a constant rate. It is an awesome engineering feat!

Lastly, here is simple trick for estimating a reel with unknown design on its cranking performance. Firstly, hold the reel on one hand, and then apply an impulse (light tap and without holding onto cranking arm). Secondly, observe the acceleration of the spool and time taken for it to stop. Compare these two characteristics on a reel you are comfortable with.

Wish you a safe and good Taiwan trip.

Tight lines

[stickbom!]

*sigh* last time mother ask me stardee harder I dun want... now regret liao Can't understand a single thing TmLim is saying above :P Seriously what's the diagram all about (Please explain in simple Singlish )

[MarkR]

Hi Richard,

Thank you once again for your valuable insights. I'll be heading up to Taiwan on 27/4 and will be back on 1/5. Very kind of you to loan me your AG Jigs, wlll contact you soon

I've heard it somewhere before that spinning reels are more costly to manufacture but still feel that spinners take prioirity over conventional reels when it comes to the big Japanese tackle manufacturers.

Currently looking for a back-up reel. Have the 4000P and thinking of getting a 5000P. Torsa is on the heavy side, high gear ratio and handle arm a little short. What do you think of the marfix? I know it's rated for PE4 and 8kg drag but it sure looks cool

Here's one on ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Ryobi-MARFIX...QQcmdZViewItem

cheerio,

mark

[stickbom!]

Mark, look out for the original Mamiya ones la

[MarkR]

Bludder,

If I could get one for a good price and in good condition I would grab...muahahahah

Old mamiya ones rated up to PE8 manz...swee

U got lobang?

[MarkR]

Bo liao...go scan catalog haha

Marfix ahead of its time lar...got many tuning parts lagi, wish I had snapped them up from Uncle John

[tmlim]

Originally Posted by stickbom!

*sigh* last time mother ask me stardee harder I dun want... now regret liao Can't understand a single thing TmLim is saying above :P Seriously what's the diagram all about (Please explain in simple Singlish )

Mike,
The poor resolution of the figure is due to the forum’s auto resize on pics.

The figure is merely trying to explain the undesirable yaw (swing) and roll (twist) of the rod center from a reference point (B) and direction. This occurs during cranking and jigging with line tension of say, 5kg.

[tmlim]

This is caused by the power handle offset from the center of the rod, a. A spinning reel e.g. SW20000 would need a larger offset to avoid colliding with bail-arm.

[tmlim]

This is a comparison on the yaw and roll moments for the Saltiga Z40 and Jigger 4000P. Although the Z40 has better cranking performance (in terms of lightness and speed) as compared to 4000P, however, the undesirable yaw and roll moments generated are 23% higher.
http://www.fishingkaki.com/forum/vie...994&highlight=

[tmlim]

A spinning reel may be more difficult to jig because some of its geometries e.g.
• Large Power Handle Offset, a
• Large Spool Line Diameter, D. This is measured from spool center to roller on bail-arm!

[tmlim]

The undesirable yaw and roll moments are indeed a serious handicap to long hours of jigging. These problems are taken seriously by Shimano (my guess) and design measures are undertaken on Ocea Blue Rose to reduce angler’s fatigue.

Hope this helps.

Bye and cheers

[tmlim]

Originally Posted by MarkR

What do you think of the marfix? I know it's rated for PE4 and 8kg drag but it sure looks cool

Hi Mark,

From the photos, I guess there are several potential design limitations in the Marfix that may pose problems in jigging efficiently.

Firstly, the power handle is too heavy and overly designed; perhaps it looks more suitable for knocking out a landed dogtooth on deck. Secondly, the cranking arm is too straight and it will give plenty of roll and yaw movements of the rod during jigging.

I could be wrong in my judgments on this reel, and would be glad if you can give me feedbacks on its use.

Cheers & Tight lines

[MarkR]

Hi Richard,

Don't know if i'll ever be able to get hold of a Mamiya Marfix

You're probably spot on by saying that the jigger is better designed. I have used a Saltiga 40 before for jigging, much more comfortable than the 665 for sure! Didn't have the jigger back then so can't really comment if it takes less effort with the jigger 4000P but I do recall that the diameter of the left side plate is smaller with the Saltiga making it easier to grip.

Tight lines,

Mark

[tmlim]

Mark,

You are absolutely right that the only drawback of 4000P is the large diameter of the side plate. I suppose it is designed to increase the line capacity and enlarge the disc drag surface area to achieve 15 kg drag. I wonder anyone ever strap their palm onto the side plate of the 4000P with a Velcro strap?

Perhaps in the near future we may find reel with both primary and secondary spools of Z30 diameter mounted onto the rod, to facilitate cranking, jigging and line capacity adequate.

Cheers