Need Pointers...[tackle setup for ray]

[DaFrogman]

Stingray,

If you do use the Genesis rods, use the LR Special. Keep in mind that at extreme drag pressure, the LR Special is only running a graphite gimball and that has been known to crack under the heaviest pressure.

As for leader size, I would use 80lb minimum, 100-150lbs ideal. Its not so much the breaking strength, but the fact that rays will hug the bottom and rub your leader all over the place.

All my mid- larger reels run 80lb braid of various brands, it does offer a little more abrasion resistance over 65lb braid. I have not noticed any difference between fish shying over 80lb braid more than 65lb braid. Also make sure your braid doesn't touch the side of the boat under pressure, that will cause small nicks which later can result in mainline failure.

Finally on the issue of rods, IMHO a Calstar 760M is more suitable for the extra heavy bottom denizens. I personally prefer and use the 755H and the all fibreglass Calstars like the T6455XH are also a tough cheaper alternative but also heavier. I certainly understand the cost issue, custom rods do cost a lot.

Regards,

Saimee

[shineshy]

though not much of a pro. but i tot 65lbs power pro shld be more than enough. Mind if i ask...u do proper line "maintenance" after every trip. Wear n tear is common if hv been used for long period of time

I tot Torsa is one gd reel u hv there. but 16 is abit line cap restricted. Unless u get those so called Jap made "fireline" (thinner than usual braided line / of cos much $) which i saw at hotspot, dono whethere the 80lbs one is in stock or not yet.

Calstar blank or GUSA would more ideal than IMO (those jigging rods) which isnt really meant for heavy bottom bashing.

tats restictly my private limited knowledge comments..

[stingrray]

Had just done up my chosen reel. Upgraded the handle and spool in fresh new 80lbs braided. Without backing, reel only managed to spool in 510yrds of line. Packed very tight liao. Spool about 97% full. 3% left is for the spool to spin. Here's some pic.


Weeks ago, went Tong Tong Chiang buy tiagra power handle. Today take out fixed on my tiagra16 reel.



Dismental orginal handle and input in new POWER arms...



It extended orginal handle by 1-2cm longer...



Take out T-bar from my Stella. Took down orginal round power knob, fixed in t-bar knob.



Spool in a fresh pack of Turf 80lbs braided. Only managed to reel in 510yrds counted by roybi line counter. Now bad things is left about 90yrds of 80lbs braided. Can anybody suggest me what to do...???



cheers,
stingrray

[stingrray]

After fixed up the tiagra16 reel. And still couldn't get a nice matching rod for this reel... SMS the calstar rod seller say I go pick the rod up. Went his house with my tiagra16 to try the calstar. As the calstar is not builded for tiagra reel, my reel seem abit big and wobble/unsteady on the blank. Seller told me his calstar build for jigger/saltis reel. I got another blank from him instead. It's G.Loomis 5'6" 60-100lbs 1pc rod. Those who use/know/ see this blank, can U guys comment about it...? Pls note that I'll pair up this rod with my tiagra16 reel. Spec say tiagra16 max drag is 14kg. With 80lbs braided spool in..., at strike what's the drag should I set for this reel...?







Lastly, no ray fishing related. Can any guys give comments for the below rod. (Both Pros/ Cons...?) It's Tenryu GM Tuna 86 rod. Butt Join, PE4-5 rod. Max drag 10kg, Max lure 110g. Thx



cheeres,
stingrray

[stickbom!]

The GL blank you bought is an old Hybrid standup stick. Very powerful and light but kinda stiff. Think I had one many years back... Alvin and Benji got a shock when I asked them to build a jigging rod with it

The Tenryu rod in those photos is for Tuna Casting. You can cast large minnows to boiling Tuna or do long jerking with jigs on this rod. Hey Edros if you're reading this... grab this rod for the upcoming YellowFin Tuna expedition if budget allows

[DaFrogman]

Originally Posted by stingrray

Pls note that I'll pair up this rod with my tiagra16 reel. Spec say tiagra16 max drag is 14kg. With 80lbs braided spool in..., at strike what's the drag should I set for this reel...?

Stingy dude,

For 80lbs braided, on most of my reels I usually set 15lbs at strike and max will work out to be around 25lbs. You could probably get as much as 20lbs at strike without any loss of freespool on the Ti16. Keep in mind that drag will go up as more line leaves your reel and the spool becomes emptier.

Nice work on the handle mods, I can't believe that it took Shimano this long to come up with an offset handle for the Tiagras. You may find that the line will pack even more tightly after reeling in deep water.

Good luck on your Pari/Prata quest dude.

Saimee

[stickbom!]

Hey Stingy... get someone to build you this for shore prata hunting!

[stingrray]

A year had past & I still failed to get my kopi-tiam table size pari... It's time of the year to go back tanjong pinang again for the hunt. Looking for advice again.

Understand fighting a huge pari can last hours. Will using reel with harness lug & kidney harness + gimble increase the chances of landing a huge pari?

Will reels like accurate 665 & Ocea Jigger 4000P good to handle huge pari? These reels dun have harness lug. Or will reels like tiagra 12 with harness lug better handle the situation?


cheers,
stingrray

[DaFrogman]

Originally Posted by stingrray

A year had past & I still failed to get my kopi-tiam table size pari... It's time of the year to go back tanjong pinang again for the hunt. Looking for advice again.

Understand fighting a huge pari can last hours. Will using reel with harness lug & kidney harness + gimble increase the chances of landing a huge pari?

Will reels like accurate 665 & Ocea Jigger 4000P good to handle huge pari? These reels dun have harness lug. Or will reels like tiagra 12 with harness lug better handle the situation?

Good to see that you haven't given up on the Extreme Pari Challenge dude.

If you still have your tackle from last year, i.e. the Tiagra 16, then I reckon that would be your best bet with the harness. You have already tried a heavy pari without a harness once right?.... I told ya its very hard to hang on for long periods of time on heavy drag without a harness or without resting the rod on the gunwhale of the ship.

The OJ4000P is a great reel, but even though you are fishing around 60m of water only, if you run 80-100lb braid, I fear that you may suffer line capacity problems. The 665 has the line capacity but IMHO, is not suited to 80lb full drag battles for very long periods of time.

Good luck dude, hope you get a SERIOUS 2.5m wide ray....

Regards,

Saimee

[Patudo]

Rays are not really gamefish but they certainly are tough. I hate bottom fishing myself but one of my best friends runs the same charter boat I used to work on in Europe. In winter he does a lot of jigging and bottom fishing. In his area there are quite a lot of big stingrays and eagle rays up to 300 lb (150 kg) plus. They started fishing three or four years ago with 30 lb stand up tackle which was much too light, 50 lb tackle was also not enough for the bigger rays. 80 lb stand up was ok but most of the anglers legs could not handle the pressure so they ended up using the same 130 lb bent butt rods and fighting chair they use for blue marlin. Biggest ray landed was over 400 lb. I guess you got to give the old stingray some respect.

If you really want a big one I suggest finding a two speed trolling reel like a Tiagra 50 or 50W, Penn 50SW or VSW is also ok. Rod should be a short xxx heavy tuna stand up rod. Spool with 100 to 150 lb power pro or similar super braid. 200 to 300 lb mono leader. Swivels and hooks must be extremely heavy duty, all connections must be solid. Good quality belt and harness is necessary to use tackle like this properly. Same outfit can be used for big game fish like YellowFin Tuna, marlin.

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by stingrray

...My personal encounter is hit a ray with Tiagra 12 reel, Tiagra 2030 rod, 65lbs powerpro, 100lbs leader... drag move to sunset. I hold the rod for around 10mins and then pass to another fren and he held for around 10mins and the powerpro broke. Maybe due to injured line when previously bee hoon with other braided. Anglers onboard estimated the ray to be >50kg range. The bend of the stiff tiagra 2030 rod is scary....

Just to clarify...
Read somewhere that tiagra 12 have max 8kg drag. When I hit the above ray and set reel to sunset, I thought it's already max (ie 8kg). Drag of my tiagra 12 wasn't really set before hand with a weighing scale.

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by DaFrogman

Good to see that you haven't given up on the Extreme Pari Challenge dude.

If you still have your tackle from last year, i.e. the Tiagra 16, then I reckon that would be your best bet with the harness. You have already tried a heavy pari without a harness once right?.... I told ya its very hard to hang on for long periods of time on heavy drag without a harness or without resting the rod on the gunwhale of the ship.

The OJ4000P is a great reel, but even though you are fishing around 60m of water only, if you run 80-100lb braid, I fear that you may suffer line capacity problems. The 665 has the line capacity but IMHO, is not suited to 80lb full drag battles for very long periods of time.

Good luck dude, hope you get a SERIOUS 2.5m wide ray....

Regards,

Saimee

Thanks for your time given in replying this thread. I like the word " Extreme Pari Challenge " I shall use these words in my catch report if had landed a decent size one...


Though pari isn't a fish that will peel line fast, but it's a tough fish to fight. Even at tiagra 12 low speed of 1.7:1 also can't retrieve an inch of the line when the fish "tong-jui". In order not to past the rod around and many angler fight 1ray....Saimee I've to agree with U that only harness+ gimble+ a harness lug reel can do a 1-1 battle. I still have tiagra 16 with me. Wish me luck.


cheers,
stingrray

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by Patudo

...If you really want a big one I suggest finding a two speed trolling reel like a Tiagra 50 or 50W, Penn 50SW or VSW is also ok. Rod should be a short xxx heavy tuna stand up rod. Spool with 100 to 150 lb power pro or similar super braid. 200 to 300 lb mono leader. Swivels and hooks must be extremely heavy duty, all connections must be solid. Good quality belt and harness is necessary to use tackle like this properly. Same outfit can be used for big game fish like YellowFin Tuna, marlin.

Hi Patudo bro, thanks for your input in this thread... I think it should be abit easier to fight a huge ray with tiagra 50 rather than tiagra 16. But if tiagra 50 reel is use... and perhelps pair with a calstar 760H tuna(50-130lbs) rod... the setup will definately give me confident boost but... ray dun peel alot of lines. The tiagra 50 line capacity is not necessary. The setup will also weight a ton which will weaken my little legs even with full harnesses. My current Tiagra 16 reel have 510m of 80lbs turfline XP will be pairing with a G.loomis hybrid 60-100lbs rod. Should have enough line capacity & power to handle the slow moving ray. What do you think...?


cheers,
stingrray

[DaFrogman]

Originally Posted by stingrray

My current Tiagra 16 reel have 510m of 80lbs turfline XP will be pairing with a G.loomis hybrid 60-100lbs rod. Should have enough line capacity & power to handle the slow moving ray. What do you think...?

Stingrray dude,

Firstly Good Luck..

Can I just ask how long that G-Loomis rod is?. I reckon you should go with a 200lb leader and 4X strength 8/0-10/0 hooks. I think that DFs idea on the Tiagra 50 is not just related to line capacity, but also to the amount of drag you can get out of a 50lb class reel in comparison to your Ti16.

Regards,

Saimee

[Patudo]

Bro,

The bigger the reel the longer the handle and bigger gears. Bigger reel can simply generate more torque = more power for lifting a big fish. Amount of line is probably not so important for ray, although if you hook an Eagle ray or a big guitar fish aka shovel nose it could go a good distance. Besides higher reel power, greater drag can also be important. Bigger reel is less stressed by heavy drag. Bigger and heavier rod and reel is more awkward to use but is not so bad when fished in a harness. Obviously the more power you can apply to the fish the easier it is to catch the fish and the bigger the fish you can catch, but when you put so much power on a fish, the question is can you the angler handle such power. Fishing for monster anything, ray, tuna, marlin, ... needs a certain level of strength, stamina as well as technique. If the sides of the boat are too low it can be too dangerous to use such heavy tackle safely because it would be too easy to get pulled in over the side.

P.

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by Patudo

Bro,

The bigger the reel the longer the handle and bigger gears. Bigger reel can simply generate more torque = more power for lifting a big fish. Amount of line is probably not so important for ray, although if you hook an Eagle ray or a big guitar fish aka shovel nose it could go a good distance. Besides higher reel power, greater drag can also be important. Bigger reel is less stressed by heavy drag. Bigger and heavier rod and reel is more awkward to use but is not so bad when fished in a harness. Obviously the more power you can apply to the fish the easier it is to catch the fish and the bigger the fish you can catch, but when you put so much power on a fish, the question is can you the angler handle such power. Fishing for monster anything, ray, tuna, marlin, ... needs a certain level of strength, stamina as well as technique. If the sides of the boat are too low it can be too dangerous to use such heavy tackle safely because it would be too easy to get pulled in over the side.

P.

Yo bro, many thanks for you to spend your time pen down your thoughts... Currently my tiagra 16 is loaded with 80lbs prowerpro. Had loaded the line with line-counter and the number reads 510m. I do believe I have the line capacity in this reel. As for bigger reel equals to higher drag. I do agree but I dun think I can handle high drag for prolong period of time... beside it also seem very dangerous to me. If tiagra 50 loaded with 80lbs line, the drag at strike will be 12kg. For drag setting of my lever drag reel, I also set at 1/3 of the line poundage. Therefore :

* Tiagra 16 with 80lbs = 80lbs divided by 3 divided 2.2 = 12kg at strike


For my tiagra 16, I only set the strike at 10kg only. I'm not sure how much drag is at sunset but I believe pari is not a fish that U can whinch up fast. Even if the ray just relax & not fighting at all, U will still have a hard time reeling it up.


Let me share a experience... at bangkok thailand bungsamran paypond. We were using Daiwa Saltiga z6000 loaded with 30lbs berkley big game mono line for the mekong catfish. The drag was checked and preset by the thail guide before fishing. When I hit the mekong and the line peeling... my fren came over & click click the reel. The mekong still strong peeling the line and he came again still click click the reel. Think my face almost blue-black from the fight. If the mekong can still endure 10-15mins, I'll be the defeated looser. The high drag do bring in the mekong abit faster but it's also very siong for me. When the fish landed. I tried to pull the drag with bare hand. As it's mono and dun cut my hands... I still can't peel the drag. I'm not sure what's the drag in kilos but it's not really fun fishing high drag even with gimble at that time.





Any more opinion / advices...?


cheers,
stingrray

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by DaFrogman

Stingrray dude,

Firstly Good Luck..

Can I just ask how long that G-Loomis rod is?. I reckon you should go with a 200lb leader and 4X strength 8/0-10/0 hooks. I think that DFs idea on the Tiagra 50 is not just related to line capacity, but also to the amount of drag you can get out of a 50lb class reel in comparison to your Ti16.

Regards,

Saimee

I'll go check the length of my rod. Should be <6fts. As for DFs idea on the tiagra 50. I've already pen down my thought regarding the drag capacity in above reply. Tiagra 50 with 80lbs, I'll set 12kg at strike. My tiagra 16 was set at 10kg strike. Only 2kg different. What's your thought in this matter?


cheers,
stingrray

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by stingrray

btw, 80lbs braided mainline pair with how many pound mono leader would be ideal huh? I'll be using rangoon also..
cheers,
stingrray

I am no expert on bottom fishing but my sifu used to tell me the shock leader used must be at least 2X your main line poundage.

Well I may be wrong but normally I followed what he told me about this rule and it works very fine for me till now.

Happy fishing

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by stingrray

I'll go check the length of my rod. Should be <6fts. As for DFs idea on the tiagra 50. I've already pen down my thought regarding the drag capacity in above reply. Tiagra 50 with 80lbs, I'll set 12kg at strike. My tiagra 16 was set at 10kg strike. Only 2kg different. What's your thought in this matter?


cheers,
stingrray

My boat rod is 5'8" long. Yesterday just reloaded the 80lbs line & today just set the drag for my reel. I up the tiagra 16 drag to 12kg at stike. Also measured sunset drag at 15kg.

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I am no expert on bottom fishing but my sifu used to tell me the shock leader used must be at least 2X your main line poundage.

Well I may be wrong but normally I followed what he told me about this rule and it works very fine for me till now.

Happy fishing

Thanks for your reply. Intend to up the poundage of my leader also. Currently I only have max 100lbs mono at home. Was thinking of going beach road just now to purchase 150lbs or 200lbs leader but was held up in an appointment. Didn't managed to get therefore have to make do with 100lbs mono. I'll be departuring tomorrow and coming back Monday evening.


cheers,
stingrray

[stingrray]