Need Pointers...[tackle setup for ray]

[stingrray]

Hi guys,
A fren told me there's many experience anglers here for serious chat therefore I register here. Need some pointers...

I'm going Tanjong Pinang (Indonesia) soon and hope to land some giant ray which is common there. Estimate ray size should be 1.5m wide and weight >50/80kg. Had been to tanjong pinang a few times and fellow kaki had burst multiple huge rays already.

My personal encounter is hit a ray with Tiagra 12 reel, Tiagra 2030 rod, 65lbs powerpro, 100lbs leader... drag move to sunset. I hold the rod for around 10mins and then pass to another fren and he held for around 10mins and the powerpro broke. Maybe due to injured line when previously bee hoon with other braided. Anglers onboard estimated the ray to be >50kg range. The bend of the stiff tiagra 2030 rod is scary.

I have the following tackles and would like to seek advice for the anglers here. Which tackle is more suitable to land huge ray. As ray is not gamefish, I'm not going to purchase a rod or a reel just to land them. Hope to make-do with my current gears. Pls explain why also...
Heavy Rods :
* Genesis Oceancraft PE5-8 (1pc rod)
* Genesis A.Jack Special PE4-7 (1pc rod)
* Lemax Slimmax PE6-8 (butt joint)
* Penn 100lbs rod (butt joint)

Reels :
* Shimano Tiagra 12 (max drag 8kg @sunset) Loaded with 65lbs dynabraid line
* Shimano Tiagra 16 (max drag 14kg @sunset) Loaded with 80lbs Turf line
* Shimano Torsa 16n (max drag should be 33lbs [15kg] @sunset) Loaded with 300yrds 50lbs turf line
* Shimano TLD20II (max drag 11kg @sunset) no lines loaded yet
* Shimano TLD30II (max drag 12kg @sunset) no lines loaded yet


A guy once mentioned to me that tiagra reel is powerful but not suitable for bottom fishing. It's design for trolling. He recommand me Ocea Jigger 4000P. I understand tiagra series is not a bottom reel and to increase the cranking power of tiagra 12/16 reel, I've purchase a tiagra power handle from TTC. The handle is about 2cm longer than the orginal tiagra handle.

Pls advice me the setup for hunting huge rays. Kindly explain why if possible... I'm thinking of pair Tiagra 16/ Torsa 16N with genesis oceancraft PE5-8. Prefer to pair with tiagra 16 bcos I'll be loading 80lbs line in it. btw, tanjong pinang water is around 60m depth...

Here's some quick questions too...
(1) For bottom bashing, do you guys use shock leader? I normally connect my braided to swievl with binimi twist direct and then to rangoon. Is it correct? Or should I connect braided to heavy mono then to swievl?

(2) For cranking power, a power knob (ie round knob) is better or a T-bar knob is better? My tiagra power handle allows to to change the knob just like stella 10k/20k. I'm targetting huge stubborn rays....

(3) What's the uses of power knob (ie round knob) and what's the uses of T-bar knob?


Many many thanks,
stingrray

[stingrray]

Anyone care to spare advice/help/ pointers? Date of departure narrowing in...

[physlo]

Originally Posted by stingrray

Anyone care to spare advice/help/ pointers? Date of departure narrowing in...

Hi David,

It's gonna take a pack of ciggies to finish answering all your question...hahaha.

Anyway, I think you can get all the answers from one of your kaki...aka yogi bear. He's a all rounder angler. Even fishing in lokangs also can.

Cheers
physlo

[galanted]

I have last heard to use the Guitar method by fellow kakis. We met up with 2 rays in 1 night during the last trip and both times, line burst.

But i do think your Torsa 16N (Spool with 65ib PP) + any of your Genesis should be able to bring up the Ray.

[stickbom!]

I hope you're not targeting rays from shore cos it'll be interesing to see you casting with those rods/reels

[Fish_Fingers]

Here is my $0.02.

1. No need shock leader. Braid direct to rangong.

2. Go with the 2-speed. i.e. Tiagra 16

3. Put the T-bar handle on instead of the round knob.

4. Use the Penn 100lb (i'm assuming its got an aftco aluminium butt)

5. Get a kidney harness system

6. Strap yourself in. (remember u can't do this with a jigging rod cos the long butt specs won't work) Engage the low gear. Sit pretty and crank the bugger up!!!

7. POST Catch Report!!!

[stingrray]

physlo, thanks for your reply. Can't ask yogi-bear. He always tell me anything also can. No definate answer one. I really hope to hear advices from U/ Makaira/ MarkR/ Dafrogman/ stickbom....etc I think U guys really experience to advice.



stickbom, thanks for your reply. Beside torsa is castable, dun think the rest of the reels are. btw, it's a boat trip. Heavy sinker say around size 20 or more will to attach to rig. No need cast. Just drop down.



galanted, thanks for your reply. I've load up my torsa 16N with 50lbs 300yrds turf line and the spool barely can take the lines liao. If I increase the poundage to 65lbs, the reel will have less than 300yrds. Do you think it's enough to fight huge ray? My last experience with the ray, the ray dun stick to the bottom. It actually peel my lines from tiagra 12 reel. Though it's slow, but it's peeling quite a bit of lines. If torsa 16N is chosen to battle the ray, line capacity is my biggest worried. What do you think?


cheers,
stingrray

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by Fish_Fingers

Here is my $0.02.

1. No need shock leader. Braid direct to rangong.

2. Go with the 2-speed. i.e. Tiagra 16

3. Put the T-bar handle on instead of the round knob.

4. Use the Penn 100lb (i'm assuming its got an aftco aluminium butt)

5. Get a kidney harness system

6. Strap yourself in. (remember u can't do this with a jigging rod cos the long butt specs won't work) Engage the low gear. Sit pretty and crank the bugger up!!!

7. POST Catch Report!!!

1) Yup, got the answer liao. Thanks


2) Actually I heard one kaki said before. Torsa though it's single speed @5.8:1, it's craking power better any tiagra 2speed reel. Even tiagra low speed can't match torsa single speed of 5.8:1. I haven't test out yet.


3) Roger. Heard some reply say T-bar is full hand grip therefore more cranking power than the round knob which most is 3-4finger grip only.


4) This rod have gimble butt, not sure if it's aftco anot. Looks aluminium to me. It's Penn Jigmaster (JMC582XH), length is 5.8fts PE12, mono line 100lbs, lure 20oz. Biggest worried is it's 2pcs butt join rod. Any comments?


5) Yup, I've got a braided harness system. Intend to bring along. Last time use arm strength to hold. 10mins of pull bei tahan liao. Rod bend till very scary. Drag lock to sunset.


6) One problem here. I dun have any calstar bottom rod. Most of my rod is jigging rod. Can I adjust the gimbelt lower or adjust the kidney harness abit long to fit my jigging rod in the 'system'?


7) With or without suggest, will post Catch Report. Not to worried about this. I hope to land huge ray from tanjong pinang. Hope I dun fly in...


Cheers,
stingrray

[Fish_Fingers]

Originally Posted by stingrray

1) Yup, got the answer liao. Thanks


2) Actually I heard one kaki said before. Torsa though it's single speed @5.8:1, it's craking power better any tiagra 2speed reel. Even tiagra low speed can't match torsa single speed of 5.8:1. I haven't test out yet.


3) Roger. Heard some reply say T-bar is full hand grip therefore more cranking power than the round knob which most is 3-4finger grip only.


4) This rod have gimble butt, not sure if it's aftco anot. Looks aluminium to me. It's Penn Jigmaster (JMC582XH), length is 5.8fts PE12, mono line 100lbs, lure 20oz. Biggest worried is it's 2pcs butt join rod. Any comments?


5) Yup, I've got a braided harness system. Intend to bring along. Last time use arm strength to hold. 10mins of pull bei tahan liao. Rod bend till very scary. Drag lock to sunset.


6) One problem here. I dun have any calstar bottom rod. Most of my rod is jigging rod. Can I adjust the gimbelt lower or adjust the kidney harness abit long to fit my jigging rod in the 'system'?


7) With or without suggest, will post Catch Report. Not to worried about this. I hope to land huge ray from tanjong pinang. Hope I dun fly in...


Cheers,
stingrray

Hi stingrray,

Torsa cannot use harness.............. got no harness lugs.............

Change my view on the Penn rod. I though it was a short stroker config. If its the jigmaster than better to go with the Oceancraft LRS.

Also, I hope u don't fly in too............

[stingrray]

Here's a pic of my penn jigmaster pair with tiagra16 reel. Tried to test the reel's drag with the great mekong @bungsamran. Due to the rod short and unable to cast to the desire spot, no mekong take. Tackle setup later rig up to target arapiama. No take. Tackle strength still untested.

cheers,
stingrray

[physlo]

David,

Fish fingers have pointed all that need to whack-up a big stingray.

On sunset drag - standing position... i don't know how long you can last but using the railing (see-saw style) also helps to ease the fight a bit.

Regards
physlo

[Fish_Fingers]

Your penn rod specs looks suitable for use with harness...........

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by Fish_Fingers

Hi stingrray,

Torsa cannot use harness.............. got no harness lugs.............

Change my view on the Penn rod. I though it was a short stroker config. If its the jigmaster than better to go with the Oceancraft LRS.

Also, I hope u don't fly in too............

Yup, torsa no harness latch. Can't fight well with kidney harness. Actually the Penn Jigmaster butt is not long. See below pic. Genesis Oceancraft (A.Jack Speical) is the shortest among the 3rods...




cheers,
stingrray

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by physlo

David,

Fish fingers have pointed all that need to whack-up a big stingray.

On sunset drag - standing position... i don't know how long you can last but using the railing (see-saw style) also helps to ease the fight a bit.

Regards
physlo

Just wondering... will 'see-saw' style break my rod? I heard of kaki using Calstar rod see-saw and no issue. They mentioned, 'Calstar is a very tough blanks'....


cheers,
stingrray

[stickbom!]

So you're after the famous freight trains of Tanjung Pinang! Good for you man. A few years back we had 3 unstoppable, unknown species of fish in one single night and I really hate to imagine how big the prata would have been IF we managed to land it. I lost a few hundred meters of PE line that night and my friend could hardly pull his rod out from his rod holder. The rest were sleeping cos winds picked up and boat was rocking a little. Only me and another chap stayed up to fish. When the rest woke up later... they heard the two of us humming the tune "One way ticket"

[stickbom!]

Use the Long Range Special lar... that would give you a better fighting chance. The Penn is pretty stiff and long... which means leverage will be against you. How heavy are you?

By the way, If you're keen to hunt for big prata from shore, let me know. I'm looking for kaki to go Pari Expedition

[stingrray]

Actually Long Range Special & Penn Jigmaster about the same length... (ie 5'8"). The A.Jack Special is abit shorter (about 5'6" or 5'7"). Dun think there's much different handling the rods with 1-2inch different right?

Dun worried about me under weight, this never happen. Always weight more than I should... but I still worried as I not experience. I think experience is important. Know what to do at the right moment is critical.

Anyway I'm keen in Pari fishing... regardless inshore or offshore, important is fish big and dun cost too much. If too costly, would be more keen to go for dogtooth/ Yellowfin/ GT...etc. Let me know the details.


cheers,
stingrray

[Juan]

Nice looking Genesis rods man...hows the action like? parabolic?

[stingrray]

Originally Posted by Juan

Nice looking Genesis rods man...hows the action like? parabolic?

None of the above rod kenna decent fish yet...

cheers,
stingrray

[jason]

I like the Amberjack special the best becos I owned one.....

Intend to get one more ...hhhehehhhe!!!!!

Yo Stingrray
Don need to target them lah....
They will come when U least expected them.....
The more U go for them, the most likely U don kena them......

Its like that, I have been chasing for a good sized like 20kg but still I don get them even when parking side side with a fren and its my fren who hit them.....
I give up liao.... I even give up fishing for Ang cho juz to get them......

Cheers
jason

[stingrray]

Hi Jason,

I can't just dun prepare myself and cross my finger and hope mama ray took my bait. When I dun have the tackle to handle the battle, it'll be a very hard time for me winning the battle.

My last experience is bad. After holding my rod for 10mins with a huge ray at the other end, I seek help from a kaki to take over my rod. He hold my rod for 10-15mins before the line broke. My hands were both trembling uncontrollaby after I pass him the rod. I can't fish for the next 20-30mins like that. Have to rest a bit. Think I've got a shock. Never hit anything so 'fierce' yet. Never expect my rod to bend till so scary also. Both physically and mentally not prepared.

So this time back, I hope I'm not taken by surprise again.


cheers,
stingrray

[DaFrogman]

Stingrray,

Welcome to FO dude good to see you here. Sorry for the latish reply, was out fishing. The previous comments are all pretty good and Fishfingers has said pretty much everything so please forgive any of my repetitions.

1. Reels

The Tiagra 16 with 80lb braid is your best bet. It has harness lugs and decent drag. Remember that the drag will increase as more line goes out from your spool. The Tiagra 12 does not have the drag profile you need.

2. Rods

Dude, I have both of the Genesis rods you listed and neither IMHO is suitable for what you need to do. I would prefer a shorter butt section i.e. the section between the reel seat and the gimball. A longer butt section will only work out better if you have a harness system that can sit low on your thighs.

To be honest, although you said you don't want to get another rod, it may well be worth investing in a cheapish Penn Tuna Stick rated minimum 40-80lb class with a roller tip + stripper guide + aluminium gimball and a Penn Durabutt which is a hard plastic rear grip that allows you pull the rod out of the holder even under heavy pressure.

The Penn TS would also be much more suited to the "See-Saw" or "Use the Rail" technique mentioned previously.... DO NOT use your Genesis rods for this technique, they were not designed to do this.

Its hard for me to comment on the Jigmaster dude. It could work out I guess, but thats up to you.

Don't worry about the bend in your rod, just don't high stick the rod. If the rod is rated for the class of line and drag you are using, then just use it at those settings and you should be OK.

3. Cranking Power/ Handles

The low gear on a 2 Speed reel will always outcrank a single speed higher ratio reel. When I say "outcrank" I mean the ability to "winch" in more mass or against a greater force with the rod in a static position... this can be handy with big heavy rays. So use your low gear if you find that you can no longer crank against the weight of the fish using high gear.

As for handles, I feel that the round "power" knobs are not suited for what you want. These round knobs may be more suitable for jigging as they allow and angler to grab the knob quickly from any position. The T-bar handle knobs are much better to hold and crank. Whilst the Stella 20K and Ocea Jigger 4&5Ks do have T-Bar knobs, these knobs are counter weighted so that they always come to sit in the same correct position, in fact I am pretty sure that the Tiagra Power Knob has the same feature. A longer handle arm will also allow you more leverage to crank the reel.

4. Setup

Your setup sounds fine. I also use a direct braid bimini to ranggong and have never busted off at the braid with this setup. Just make sure that the ranggong has good heavy duty swivels. I would also advise 100-200lb 15ft long leader and Heavy Duty 4X hooks in a snelled twin hook rig.

A standup harness that allows your rod to sit comfortably at a perpendicular angle to your body is a very good idea. Ideally, this means that you can pump the fish not just with your arms but also by bending your knees and using your legs. This position also allows you to rest your arms and use your body and the harness to keep pressure on the fish. Keep in mind that you may need to adjust the harness to suit the height of the railing on the ship/boat you will be using (I am assuming you are fishing from some sort of vessel).

5. Miscellaneous

Fighting big rays is a game of patience where constant pressure is the key. You win some, you lose some and luck plays a big role. I have only landed rays up to 50kg, but my crew have landed larger ones. I think the last ray over 50kg probably broke my 24kg Stroker rod.... My last big shovelnosed ray over 40kg had me pinned to the side of the boat for 30 minutes before I could get him off the bottom, so long fights are the norm here too.

Lastly good luck dude and watch out how you handle big rays at boat side, the stinger barbs are not only pointy but also serrated and sharp and they can cut through your leader and parts of your body.

Regards,

Saimee

[stingrray]

Hi 'DaFrogman', thanks for your time and patient to reply my thread. I'm really glad. Many see tiagra16 is the right reel. I also agree. I'm more confident with the high line capacity/ 80lbs braided/ powerful level drag & not to foget the harness lug.

As for the rod, dun think want to purchase a tuna stick. I've seen one. Very thick, heavy, bulky... most important reason is dun want to get another rod just for stingray fishing. Understand a calstar 30-80lbs rod with tiagra16 would be a good combination but too bad, I haven't got myself a calstar rod yet, though I hope to get one soon. ($$$ factor lah, know one seller, me too broke to get from him now)

As for gimbelt, I do have one. Nice one to rest on my hign. Hope can pair up nicely with my braided kidney harness and rod. Think would use either one of the genesis rod. I'll becareful not to see-saw the rod.

btw, may I ask... if main line is 80lbs, how many pounds leader is appropriate to use with the rangoon? I would be using 2pcs 5/0 mustand sea hook for the rig. Maybe 3hooks if the bait is big pieces...


cheers,
stingrray