Midknot Strength

[DaFrogman]

I thought I would share an experience I had during my last trip.

My 665 is rigged up with a 4m long mono windon that is midknotted to the mainline Stren 80lb braid. The mono used is Maxima Ultragreen 100lb. At the time I was using a ranggong running a 4m long Maxima Ultragreen 80lb leader.

Anyway, I was a bit slow on the strike with one fish and it managed to reef me in a tasty bit of the structure we were fishing. So in order to break off, I tightened up my mainline and started wrapping it around a half full handline spool to winch it up and use the swell to break off the line.

So with the line fully taught and me blue in the face trying to break it off, I found that although I was pulling till Hernia was a real concern, I could not bust off the snag. It felt like the ranggong leader was wrapped around something. Ishak seeing my distress joined me and together we managed to bust off finally.

It was only whilst reeling up that I realised that I still had my ranggong and more still, the midknot had held against at least 80-100lbs of pulling force. When I finally retrieved the rig, I found that the 80lb leader had sheered through at the end and upon inspecting the midknot, I found that 3 of the half hitch wraps had slipped over the "bulb" melted at the end of the mono, but the rest of the 15 wraps of braid over mono in the knot had held. That was pretty amazing to me and has convinced me that the midknot would hold against any drag setting I cared to dish out.

Has anyone else had a chance to field test the breaking strength of their midknot?.

Saimee

[physlo]

Originally Posted by DaFrogman

I thought I would share an experience I had during my last trip.

My 665 is rigged up with a 4m long mono windon that is midknotted to the mainline Stren 80lb braid. The mono used is Maxima Ultragreen 100lb. At the time I was using a ranggong running a 4m long Maxima Ultragreen 80lb leader.

Anyway, I was a bit slow on the strike with one fish and it managed to reef me in a tasty bit of the structure we were fishing. So in order to break off, I tightened up my mainline and started wrapping it around a half full handline spool to winch it up and use the swell to break off the line.

So with the line fully taught and me blue in the face trying to break it off, I found that although I was pulling till Hernia was a real concern, I could not bust off the snag. It felt like the ranggong leader was wrapped around something. Ishak seeing my distress joined me and together we managed to bust off finally.

It was only whilst reeling up that I realised that I still had my ranggong and more still, the midknot had held against at least 80-100lbs of pulling force. When I finally retrieved the rig, I found that the 80lb leader had sheered through at the end and upon inspecting the midknot, I found that 3 of the half hitch wraps had slipped over the "bulb" melted at the end of the mono, but the rest of the 15 wraps of braid over mono in the knot had held. That was pretty amazing to me and has convinced me that the midknot would hold against any drag setting I cared to dish out.

Has anyone else had a chance to field test the breaking strength of their midknot?.

Saimee

Dude,
Is mid knot same as the FG knot? How much drag pressure were you on?

Regards
physlo

[stickbom!]

For the record, I've never had a mid/fg knot slip on me before. Snags, stubborn fish... you name it dude... oh remember on our first trip to Brunei on your boat? We snagged up pretty bad on some cable dangling off the metal post remember? well... the braid always seem to give way before the knot slipped

[physlo]

Oh, so it's FG knot. Couple of years back just after my trip with the AG guys, one of them hook on to a 200kg plus Hammer Head. The fight lasted around an hour or so before he lost the fish at boatside due to broken gaff. Same knot used. This prove that it's one hell of a knot.

Saimee,
80-100lbs pulling force....becareful dude, we are not getting any younger.

[tmlim]

From my experience, the mid-knot is indeed one of the knots that can realize the maximum connectivity strength of the braid and short-leader. With this knot, I always glee with laughter when the boatman attempts to assist me in managing the ‘sangkok’ situations, it is because he will never fail to curse and swear after that.

It is also a knot that requires more than a pair of hands and legs to tie on a rocking boat, and some of my friends simply gave up trying to tie this knot. I am in the midst of fabricating a mid-knot's fixture that is supposed to help to replace part of my limbs when tying the knots.

I also found out that by using a bit of UV glue on the the half-hitch wraps and rest of the 15 wraps of braid over mono helps to prevent the braid from slipping-off the bulb and fraying.

[ophio]

I would agree that the FG knot have never fail me .Its is one tough knot to break when I had my sangkut .Its either the mono or braid that breaks .But it does slip once when i did not use a proper mono line as the shock leader ,as the mono was abit of the hard type the braid can't really put the sqeeze on it( yet its another sangkut thingy ,but it took me one really tough pull to get it slip though )

[DaFrogman]

Tm...

I have actually built a small rig to tie the knot... I'll take pictures later.

Saimee

[physlo]

Originally Posted by tmlim

From my experience, the mid-knot is indeed one of the knots that can realize the maximum connectivity strength of the braid and short-leader. With this knot, I always glee with laughter when the boatman attempts to assist me in managing the ‘sangkok’ situations, it is because he will never fail to curse and swear after that.

It is also a knot that requires more than a pair of hands and legs to tie on a rocking boat, and some of my friends simply gave up trying to tie this knot. I am in the midst of fabricating a mid-knot's fixture that is supposed to help to replace part of my limbs when tying the knots.

I also found out that by using a bit of UV glue on the the half-hitch wraps and rest of the 15 wraps of braid over mono helps to prevent the braid from slipping-off the bulb and fraying.

Alamak Prof...the FG knot not so chim to tie until like that lah. Anyway agree with you, a little dab of glue definately helps.

Cheers!

[tmlim]

Originally Posted by DaFrogman

I have actually built a small rig to tie the knot... I'll take pictures later.

Thanks. Wow … you will be famous if it is similar to the gadget that ties the Sabiki’s hooks.

Originally Posted by physlo

the FG knot not so chim to tie until like that lah.

Forgot to add that my teeth was used as well ... just kana warning by my dental surgeon recently when he had a look at their condition. But at least they had gone thru PE8 rating strength.

[alucard]

i had once tied 65lb tuffline to 80lb jingkai leader with the FG and tested it on scale. it max the scale at 24kg!!! imagine fishing with that amount of drag?i'll be jet skiing with the tunas!!

[francchia]

Saimee,

slightly off topic........what is the pro of tying a wind-on leader to the rangong when you already have another mono leader attached to the rangong for the bait. Double shock resistance ?

As for Midknot, I used the modified method proposed by my buddy which is to add a figure 8 followed by half hitch. Main reason for the figure 8 is to lock the initial portion. So far nothing had failed on this knot except on one occassion the thinning effect of mono at the swivel whereby I lost the complete jig and fish. This lead me to believe why addition of small tubing into the mono is very critical at that point.


Tight Lines

[MarkR]

Prefer the modified version of the Fisherman knot AO's Alvin taught me some years back. Have absolute faith in this knot for mono-braid connections and use it for all applications other than casting/popping. Never slipped, never failed...when sangkot, it's the knot used to connect the leader to the swivel that usually gives way even with an 80lb braid : 130-150lb FC or mono leader ratio. I reserve the FG/mid-knot exclusively for casting applications coz i'm paranoid about not tightening it adequately...pull until face turn blue also a bit apprehensive

[DaFrogman]

Franc,

The main reason for using the mono windon was because I got tired of cutting off the 2-3m of braid everytime I got ready to fish. The front portion of my braid always without fail tends to get some minor damage, tiny frays, nicks etc etc.... and lord knows I loose enough braid to the damned scissors brigade around here. So I put on the 80-100lb windon and that holds up very well indeed.

The knot I use at the swivel allows two loops of mono to grip the swivel and I have yet to have a knot failure on that one.

In fact I have been really pleased with all the knots holding up to the ultra sangkot test. I still need to take pics of the simple rig I use to tie a midknot.

Mark R,

That modded Alvin special knot would be cool.... wanna illustrate it?.... I'll make it a sticky....

Saimee

[MarkR]

Hi Saimee,

Will try to get something done...need some time

tight lines

[Akudou]

Franc,
The midknot Saimee use is very good. He made me a sample and taught me how to do it. And so far until today, i have not loss the a line unless its a barra that strikes it.I salute Saimee DFM for that

[DaFrogman]

Originally Posted by Akudou

He made me a sample and taught me how to do it. And so far until today, i have not loss the a line unless its a barra that strikes it.

Ahhhh yeeesss Felix,

But Wise Man say;

"No practiseeeee knoteeee mean bigeeeee fishhhyyyyyy will bustyyyyy your mid knottttyyyyyy and also Mr. Murphyyyyyyy will call Mr. Toothyyyyyy Fishhhyyyyy to biteeee biteeee your nice mid knotttyyyyyy" .....

It doesn't matter what kind of knot you use as long as you tie it properly. I would prefer a guy properly tying two decent uniknots instead of a half baked mid/FG knot..... So practise makes perfect, its the easiest way to make good use of bits of braid and mono leader that you have no other use for.

In your case, you'd also better learn to work on your reels more too .

Saimee

[francchia]

Thanks Saimee and Akudou for the replies.

My intention was not to prove which knot is better as all my buddies are using different knots and still they catch bigger fish than me without any failure. In layman term, all knots are good unless you try it out yourself and found it out when there is a failure then you opt for other knot. My own analogy less knot (connection) mean less chance of breakage irregardless of what tye of connection unless there is a synergistic effect where it exceed 100 % of the breaking strain which is highly unlikely.


Saimee had clearly explained the wind on mono leader and it is the barracouta that is giving the problem. I forget my old experience at Spartley Islands few years back whereby I patiently waited for the flametailed snapper for 3 nights. On the same location and time, my braided line was cutted by the barracuotta and the boatman landed the one and only flametailed snapper for the entire trip using 150 mono hand lines. I wanted to land this fish for my own record purpose but the long journey deferred me from going back.


Tight Lines

[Makaira]

Originally Posted by DaFrogman

The main reason for using the mono windon was because I got tired of cutting off the 2-3m of braid everytime I got ready to fish. The front portion of my braid always without fail tends to get some minor damage, tiny frays, nicks etc etc.... and lord knows I loose enough braid to the damned scissors brigade around here. So I put on the 80-100lb windon and that holds up very well indeed.

Apart from the "stretch" value and the reasons you mentioned, I also use a shock / wind-on leader because when I see the connection breaking the surface, pretty much like when the double knot on a game reel appears, I know the fish is near the surface. When I get a few cranks of it on the spool, I can really hammer down on the drag to subdue the fish in quick order.

When cranking in to check / change bait, especially when night fishing, one of the side advantage is when the wind-on appears, I will slow down on the cranking. Occasionally when I do not use a wind-on, the ranggong & sinker comes flying out of the water & the swivel hits the tip guide at a pretty high speed, which can't be good for it if it happens too often

[DaFrogman]

Originally Posted by francchia

I forget my old experience at Spartley Islands few years back whereby I patiently waited for the flametailed snapper for 3 nights. On the same location and time, my braided line was cutted by the barracuotta and the boatman landed the one and only flametailed snapper for the entire trip using 150 mono hand lines. I wanted to land this fish for my own record purpose but the long journey deferred me from going back.

Franc dude,

Thats why I have loaded my SST-12 with 340m of 50lb mono just bcos the coutas don't seem to like munching mono so much. BTW, my crew headed out with a few of my reels last weekend and the coutas were on the munch...so I lost over a hundred more metres of braid off my reels.... This fishing thing is getting expensive...

Saimee