High end reel failures- opinions from the land of the Samsonfish

[MarkR]

Link to WA tackle talk:

http://www.westernangler.com.au/foru..._114674/tm.htm

I am both an Accurate and Van Staal user/fan so it was interesting to note what Allan Bevan had to say about the Van Staal and Twin Spin. I don't doubt that he would "have had more fish over the reels than anyone" and I value his opinion on the Van Staal spinners but am a little surprised that the Twin Spin did not survive the Samson test. This brings me to another issue- a lot of commercially linked people have been very active in tackle forums; some commercial guys have even started their own bulletin boards. It might be difficult for them to be impartial so I feel that people with vested interest in the industry should try to declare their associations when posting comments about products from other manufacturers.

[physlo]

As quoted by Alan himself 'Most of the time it's the anglers which is the culprits , not the gears'

He's damned right.

[DaFrogman]

Recently, I had to get a spare part for a Saltiga Expedition (not mine) that had the roller bearing housing fractured on the rotor arm assembly.

According to the owner, he was cleaning the reel when it slipped and fell on the floor, bending the bail arm slightly. When he tried to bend the arm back to shape, he noticed the fracture on the roller bearing housing.

This illustrates one of the best examples of "S**t happens" and I guess I now know to be more careful with my Expedition. Changing the stock drags to greased Carbontex ones also seems to have sorted out any issues with a sticky drag although the drags have only been tested to 25lbs on fish.

My next little drag project will probably be to put Carbontexs in my Twinpower, since there have been guys who found that the drag output decreased a lot after a dozen or so decent fish and I find this pretty believeable since there are only two thick carbon drag washers in the stack in the spool.

As for Accurate and Van Staal, well the VS design is pretty tried and tested whereas I believe that the Twinspin design is still in the latter stages of its learning curve. I tell ya, when they build an all titanium body reel right down to the screws with no aluminium and maybe the only steel being a forged shaft and the bearings, that would be the biznicks.

Regards,

Saimee

[12345]

[quote=DaFrogman;10289]Recently, I had to get a spare part for a Saltiga Expedition (not mine) that had the roller bearing housing fractured on the rotor arm assembly.

According to the owner, he was cleaning the reel when it slipped and fell on the floor, bending the bail arm slightly. When he tried to bend the arm back to shape, he noticed the fracture on the roller bearing housing.

.........Peter told me he dropped it?? btw, make it sure u don't hit the roller bearing housing cos' Andrew Saltiga 6000 hit door knob it crack too while onboard Apollo.

[squidgie]

Hi all,

Finally decided to register here after loitering for a while. Im also looking into getting a nice threadline reel and am curious how many other issues people have seen with either the saltiga 6000Gt/EXP or Stella 10000.

Im fairly certain Im getting a 6000GT but am curious as to what other problems these or Stellas have occured (not including human error..dropping, bashing into the side of the boat etc)....I will be using 50lb line and casting poppers off the rocks , so wont be maxing the drag out either.

cheers

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by squidgie

Hi all,

Finally decided to register here after loitering for a while. Im also looking into getting a nice threadline reel and am curious how many other issues people have seen with either the saltiga 6000Gt/EXP or Stella 10000.

Im fairly certain Im getting a 6000GT but am curious as to what other problems these or Stellas have occured (not including human error..dropping, bashing into the side of the boat etc)....I will be using 50lb line and casting poppers off the rocks , so wont be maxing the drag out either.

cheers

Squdgie ,

You will not have problem with those reels mentioned with 50 lbs line , those I heard breaking were used with 100+ lbs line and with a very high drag setting to minimise the fight time in order to ensure successfull CnR .

Saltiga will be lighter but Stella will have a higher max. drag , courtesy the twin disk drag system at the back of the spool and will have longer period
between change of drag washers . With you , it may be a long while before
you get to notice decrease of drag since you are only using 50 lbs line from
either reels .

Both are good reels but my preference is for Stella as I have used them way back since 2002 ( previous model ) and still going strong . I have broken the smaller Saltiga Z4500 at the stem though , using 60 lbs line ( PE5 ) on YellowFin Tuna
at moderate drag setting of 6 kg only , Daiwa replaced the body of the reel
after prolonged period of warranty claim .

Sportfisherman .

[squidgie]

cheers,

I figured most of the issues were from running very heavy lines and really pushing the reels to the max. Not something I could do landbased without getting dragged off the rocks or tripping over.

Its a shame that with a saltiga that is so expensive, most recommend that the drag washers are changed to carbontex to make the most of the reel, while the stella is fine out of the box with its drag operation.

Did Daiwa say why the stem of the z4500 broke?

regards

[DaFrogman]

Hiya Squidgie,

Welcome aboard FO.

The pure carbon washers used in the Saltiga spinners are very similar to the Dartanium washers used by Shimano in the Trinidad, Kaikon, Jigger and Torium series as well as the Twinpower 8000. This drag material is good at what it does i.e. smooth drag in the early stages of use, but I have found that these washers tend to chip at the edges pretty quickly after some good fish and after that they just plain crack. They are also a serious pain in the rear to service, since they are real fragile and the dust they leave behind mixes with the drag grease to become a thick black sticky gunk, which makes them stick to the metal drag washers and make separating the washers difficult without breaking the carbon washers.

These washers aren't cheap or low end, but like you I am suprised as to why Carbonfibre drags like the Carbontex weren't used in the first place. You might also want to wait for the new Stellas to come out, maybe they really might be a lot better than the current model, or the price of the current models might go down a wee bit (don't hold ya breath on that tho).

The reason I went the Saltiga route as opposed to the Stella, was because I was reliably informed that they would hold up better to the harsh small boat fishing conditions that I subject my reels to, since they are better sealed. Oh, and with the carbontex washers, I chickened out on my drag testing when I hit 45lbs with some more left to dish out on the drag knob.

12345,

Yup thats how he dropped his reel; cleaning it. I reckon that I will just have to watch my Expedition more carefully, but it is such a puurrtttyyy reel.

Regards,

Saimee

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by squidgie

cheers,

I figured most of the issues were from running very heavy lines and really pushing the reels to the max. Not something I could do landbased without getting dragged off the rocks or tripping over.

Its a shame that with a saltiga that is so expensive, most recommend that the drag washers are changed to carbontex to make the most of the reel, while the stella is fine out of the box with its drag operation.

Did Daiwa say why the stem of the z4500 broke?

regards

Squidgie ,

They never explained what caused the stem to break , I suspect it's a design flaw because 2 exact reels broke at exact spot , i.e. across the first hole from the top . Both reel were replaced with new bodies but the same internals .

Sportfisherman .

[squidgie]

Interesting that the stem issue only arose with the 4500s....but the others have the same drilled holes, but havent heard of failures like that. Maybe those smaller reels where getting pushed way too hard doing a job that would have been more suited to the larger models.

People keep mentioning new stella's, but are they really on the cards ..no one seems to have details. We (in AUS) are only just getting the stella 8000....

Sq.

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by squidgie

Interesting that the stem issue only arose with the 4500s....but the others have the same drilled holes, but havent heard of failures like that. Maybe those smaller reels where getting pushed way too hard doing a job that would have been more suited to the larger models.

People keep mentioning new stella's, but are they really on the cards ..no one seems to have details. We (in AUS) are only just getting the stella 8000....

Sq.

Squidgie ,

It was funny to have found out recently that Stella 8000FA was not availbale until recently , in S.E.Asia that size reel is the most popular and for your info. , it shares the same body as Stella 6000FA but has lower gear ratio , the spools are interchangeable .

As for Z4500 , it happened to Blast 4500 which apparently it shares the same body and in my opinion , Daiwa has somewhat changed in their marketing to
use colors to market their products instead of technological innovations . Forexample , Saltiga DogFight is no other than Saltiga Z6000GT with #6500 spool and aftermarket round grip , painted in black .

I can imagine new Stella to be lighter than the present FA model but just as
strong , most likely they are going to have Magnesium bodies to shave off
a few hundreg grammes for the almost 1 kg. weight of 20000FA .

Sportfisherman .

[squidgie]

The dogfight is a black version of the Expedition with high speed gearing.....I think even more than the GT. Well, with the larger spool it will have a higher retrieve.

Yeah, the 20000 is way to heavy for me..no way I could be spinning with that all day ....

[hon-su]

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

Squidgie ,
As for Z4500 , it happened to Blast 4500 which apparently it shares the same body and in my opinion , Daiwa has somewhat changed in their marketing to
use colors to market their products instead of technological innovations . Forexample , Saltiga DogFight is no other than Saltiga Z6000GT with #6500 spool and aftermarket round grip , painted in black .

Not entirely true, I own both Z4500H and blast 4500. I can assure you the blast is internally different to the Z4500. The blast gearing is made of stainless steel instead of the Z4500 bronze alloy. Therefore under the same amount of "abuse" the Z4500 will last longer. Physically the reels are the same, but internally different type of parts are used.

But I totally agree with the others. And bad choice of colours for the dogfight, too.....Penn SS =)

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by hon-su

Not entirely true, I own both Z4500H and blast 4500. I can assure you the blast is internally different to the Z4500. The blast gearing is made of stainless steel instead of the Z4500 bronze alloy. Therefore under the same amount of "abuse" the Z4500 will last longer. Physically the reels are the same, but internally different type of parts are used.

But I totally agree with the others. And bad choice of colours for the dogfight, too.....Penn SS =)

HonSu ,

What I mean by " body " may be a mistake here , what I mean " body " is the die cast with stem and all , not the internals ( guts what you Ozzies call it ) .
Sorry for the confusion .

Sportfisherman .

[hon-su]

Originally Posted by Sportfisherman

HonSu ,

What I mean by " body " may be a mistake here , what I mean " body " is the die cast with stem and all , not the internals ( guts what you Ozzies call it ) .
Sorry for the confusion .

Sportfisherman .

ahhh....k

My bad....yeah they share the same "body". Would be good if they introduce a totally machined reel.

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by hon-su

ahhh....k

My bad....yeah they share the same "body". Would be good if they introduce a totally machined reel.

Honsu ,

Then it wud be more expensive and heavier , Daiwa excells in light body but doing it Accurate way may tip the scale to become HEAVY METAL way .

Sportfisherman .

[hon-su]

what about Van Staals way? They seem relatively lighter than saltigas and stellas. Maybe its just the amount of holes they got.....=)

[squidgie]

I think I read somewhere about some Van Staals having issues(or was it the accurate reels)...but cant remember what. It was on a US site stripersonline i think.