Broken SevenSeas rod

[edylie]

Check out this picture

It occured when i had a solid hookup on a fish using jig.

Story is here http://www.fishingouting.com/forums/...html#post13219

Cheers,
Edy

[Makaira]

Hi Edy,

Congrats on a great trip to the Maldives!!!

Is this particular model a relatively slow action rod? The point where the rod broke seems to suggest that it is. Either that, or the drag was jammed, or drag set beyond the limit of the rod specifications; or it was simply a case of "shit happens."

What is the rating of the rod, the poundage of the line & what was the drag setting of the reel when it happened. Can you recall?

Best regards,
Makaira

[edylie]

Hi KK,

Thank you for your kind words

The drag was smooth... I believe this rod is rated at PE 5, the main line is 65 pounds and drag was 8kgs

Cheers,
Edy

[MarkR]

Yo Edy,

That point of breakage seems very low down the blank for a one piece rod to me. Were there multiple points of breakage or only this one?

[edylie]

Hi MarkR,

Just this part.

Cheers,
Edy

[Makaira]

Originally Posted by MarkR

Yo Edy,

That point of breakage seems very low down the blank for a one piece rod to me. Were there multiple points of breakage or only this one?

Great point Mark.

Edy, did the blank shatter into a few pieces or did it happen to quick for you to notice?

[edylie]

Hi Makaira,

No, It did not shatter to pieces. It was broken that part only ... Jean Jacques was still asking me if I wanted to bring up the fish ... and I told him yes ... while he is getting ready on his gloves, the fish make some solid runs and cut my braided line due to abrasion with the boat.

Cheers,
Edy

[thunnus]

Looks like muroto doesn't suitable for a hardcore angler like you. Should take the Atomic Sword, I suppose ? Hahahahaahaah.......

[Sportfisherman]

Originally Posted by edylie

Check out this picture

It occured when i had a solid hookup on a fish using jig.

Story is here http://www.fishingouting.com/forums/...html#post13219

Cheers,
Edy

Hi Edie ,

Aw , bad luck but then it's an experience you won't forget too soon , I did that years ago and then change brand of rod .

JJ told me he is very happy with the rod you handcarried for him to Israel , his friends want the same now .

Sportfisherman .

[mark]

Originally Posted by edylie

Hi Makaira,

No, It did not shatter to pieces. It was broken that part only ... Jean Jacques was still asking me if I wanted to bring up the fish ... and I told him yes ... while he is getting ready on his gloves, the fish make some solid runs and cut my braided line due to abrasion with the boat.

Cheers,
Edy

Great trip Edy, just wondering was the fish already near the surface but took another run that kinda break the rod before you guys can land it? any video of the fight?

Mak, yes Muroto is one of those that'll bend all the way to foregrip kinda rod

i broke a couple of badminton rackets when i used to play it many years back and i reckon the best way to prevent it from happening again is to quit playing badminton altogether

[edylie]

thunnus,
haha, I am not hardcore lah ...

Sportfisherman,
JJ loves the rod very much and yes Albert likes it to after casting it few times.

mark,
There was no fight at all ... the fish was just being hooked up on a jig and make its initial run but the rod break so it was not near the surface.

It was so sudden that we do not understand why it breaks at that part. I will be sending it back to the manufacturer and see what is the response.

[DaFrogman]

Edy,

Was both sad and somewhat suprised to see a "Marque" rod broken like that. Keep us informed of what happens and what response if any that you get.

Saimee

[DCheng]

Hi Edy,

It's a pity to see the Muroto breaks.

I recieved a Muroto Revival and a Sniper-R 55HH and whenever i fish with this 2 rods. My strike setting is always >5kg for these 2 rods. I only use higher setting on rods like Imperial 55RR and the Oriental Dogtooth Series. To me the rod is good for light jigging but not heavy drag setting like 8kg.


I believe you will not have any problem making a claim through your dealer.

[Rsls]

Hi Edy,

Please see link on explanation from H. Matsutani on your broken rod.

International BBS

I think if u have further queries on the rod, u can reply him on his BBS.

Cheers
Ricky

[edylie]

Hi Dcheng,
Thank you for your information. I will get another SevenSeas rod and this time i might opted for higher range

Hi Ricky,
Thank you for the heads up. I have already replied on that thread
It is very nice to have good support from the manufacturer!!!

Cheers,
Edy

[MarkR]

Yo Edy,

That's good news indeed Very prompt response from Sevenseas and very reassuring too. Not many tackle manufacturers would voice out publicly that they conducted a load test and found the blank to break.

Cheers

[Makaira]

Very prompt response indeed by the manufacturer. I was just thinking, was the optimum line class & drag setting mentioned in the post for that particular rod explicitly detailed in the rod specifications either online or in a brochure accompanying it at point of purchase; or was it on reflection after the fact that it failed at 8kg or 10kg, as the case may be. If it is the later, perhaps they should be more specific with the user "instructions" to prevent future mishaps due to "mishandling."

Edy also brought up an excellent observation i.e. lines are largely underated these days. So don't expect the line to break at its rated strength when you need to palm the pool. Just as an illustration, 65# Power Pro probably breaks at say 75-80#. Even if given a loss of 20% breaking strength due to a knot, that is still around 60# needed to break the line. Using a PE6 rod, assuming that it is an accurate rating by the manufacturer, that is the max limit of the rod. So chances of breaking the rod is pretty high imho. I may have oversimplified the physics of it all, but I hope you guys get what I mean. So; if you really want / need to break the fish off, or a snag for that matter, always point the rod tip at the fish, or rock, to take the strain totally off the rod. That will save you a lot of heart break.

Another important thing to note is drag setting based on what Matsutani-san mentioned in his post. Personally, after I set my strike drag, I will always do a "jerk" test to see how much inertia the reel has i.e. how many pounds of pull is needed to get it slipping -- a 10kg drag setting may need a 13kg to get it to start slipping. This is can be different for every reel. If there is a lot if inertia (I hope this is the right technical term), I will not push the lever up to strike until a fish is hooked up & taking line. Unfortunately, imho, it is difficult to do this with a high degree of confidence with a star drag reel. Bear in mind that with the non-stretch nature of braided / PE line, there is no cushion whatsoever. If the line don't "piak" the rod will.

[MarkR]

Hi fellas,

Yes, Edy raised a good point on the Sevenseas bb and that got me thinking too..I had originally written something about PE ratings and max drag ratings but edited it out.

Sevenseas adopts a power level rating for their rods. They don't adopt a max drag rating like many other Japanese manufacturers. You'll find a rods rated for PE 5-6 but with different power levels eg. Imperial 55RR and NM 100 extra have the same PE rating but NM has a power rating of 12 whereas the Imperial is rated at 10. The Muroto is rated PE 3-5 I believe but if you compare blanks and just pull on them a little, it becomes instantly clear that the Imperial is suited for much heavier work and higher drag settings. Indeed many of the earlier generation TM blanks (ones without Ti composites) have similar PE ratings to their newer Ti-laced counterparts although they do have lower power ratings. There is no proper reference standard used by Sevenseas for their power ratings, so it becomes quite arbitrary here...I also don't think the power ratings are printed on Sevenseas blanks.

Tight lines

[Makaira]

My personal preference is to fish a blank on the lower end of the rating range or the middle at most. I'd rather err on the safe side than to max out the limit of a blank. As MarkR mentioned, by pulling on the blank & with proper experience, one will learn to figure out whether a blanks will fish as spec'd or otherwise.

[Pelagic]

This is an interesting discussion. I'm still not able to work on the rational of the PE rating on most rods that are available on the market nowadays.

In the old days, rods are rated in lb of the lines to be used. And a 30-80lb rod is suitable with at most with lines with breaking strength of 80lb. I was taught to divide the breaking strength of the lines by 3 to get the max setting on the drag. If one choose to use a 80lb rated lines that break only at 100lb, then it is the user's problem when this rod break.

My understanding is PE ratings is meant to universally define the thickness of the modern fishing line. Thus you see most fishing reel define the length of lines for their spools based on the PE rating. However with the improvement in technology of making PE lines, PE 4 is not longer 40lb and PE 6 is no longer 60lb breaking strength, at least for most brands.

So what is the rational of rating a rod using PE level (remember: PE # till now in this discussion, defines the thickness of the line) ?

Is it to prevent an overly thin lines from cutting the guides? Logic tells me not because generally a higher PE rating rods cost more than a lower PE ratings one and hence the guide deployed must be better. Plus most respectable rods nowadays uses good guides and you hardly hear anyone having this lines-cut-into-guide problem.

Is it to prevent one from using an overly thick lines when fishing and hence controling the 'layang' effect of jigs? Common sense tells me that rod maker cannot be too worried about things that are beyond their control.

So what is the PE ratings for and what does it really tells us, other than a PE 1-3 rod is generally softer than a PE 3-6 rod?


There are also rooms for discussion when a rod is meant to take say 5 kg drag max but not a 5kg initial drag. Like what Makaira mentioned, when taking into account the 'inertia' factor, chances are the initial drag is at least equal or greater than the desired set drag. That explains why a '5kg drag' rod should not be make to take a 5kg 'running drag'. However I can understand why a rod should be rated, say 'max 5kg' because as the lines on the spool gets lesser, the force needed to get the lines out of most reels increased; Moment = Force x Distance. When we set a drag, we are actually setting the 'Moment'. As the distance from the line to the center of the spool gets less and less, the 'Force' increases.

Take Stella 10k for instance, the 'Force' actually increase almost 2x when a spool is full of lines vs just before a fish 'spooled' us.

In summary, if a rod is rated 5kg drag, be very careful if you are trying to push your limit on drag especially when you lines becomes less and less on your spool during your fight.

Hope this makes sense

[DaFrogman]

Edy,

I was and impressed with the prompt reply from Sevenseas, which was in fact a prompt reply from the man himself (Master Matsutani) regarding your rod. Like others I am impressed that they would be prepared to try and replicate a similar scenario to the point of rod breakage, I have yet to hear of other manufacturers willing to test their products to this point and publicise the results on the internet.

The posts above really provide a lot of good discussion on many points, particularly intial drag inertia and also the effect of a lessening amount of line on the spool as you fight the fish.

I guess both anglers and manufacturers must apply some commonsense.

Anglers must be more realistic in the line classes they use with a given rod and also they must accurately gauge and familiarise themselves with the drag characteristics of their reels.

Manufacturers must be more forthcoming with the literature on their rods and how they define the specs on their rods, including a clear indication on the rods themselves on what the max drags and line classes should be. The literature should also contain caution notes on startup drag (inertia), the effect of an emptying spool during a fight and the fact that smooth drags are absolutely essential.

Manufacturer recommendations on drag settings as you lose line to a big fish would also be helpful although once again, the angler must apply commonsense and some experience in order to use their gear in the optimum manner.

We as anglers cannot of course expect manufacturers to be able to tell us exact settings for all given situations, its just not possible to predict all the variable situations you can encounter whilst fishing, thats where experience comes into play.

I am sure you will not have a problem with replacement and if they allow you to trade up to a higher class rod, go for it. You might also want to check the drags on your reel in terms of inertia and startup drag/stick. I am not sure what kind of drags your Ishidai uses, but if they are pure carbon drags like those used in Saltiga spinning reels, then you might want to convert to greased carbonfibre like the Carbontex drags. I seem to recall a number of posts on other forums regarding drag issues on Saltist and Saltiga overheads.

Just for your info, there are a number of anglers here who have done the Carbontex conversions already and I will ask them for feedback on how the reels work and if possible get hold of the reels to do some arbitrary testing.

Regards,

Saimee

[edylie]

Hi Saimee,

I am impressed by the support and openess of SevenSeas!

I was told by some friends that Sevenseas always "down rated" their blanks so PE5 is capable of much higher poundage. I guess that is not the case.

I dont usually fish more than what it is recommended on the rod/line too. The drag on the reel is very smooth so I am not sure if changing to Carbontex would be any help in this case.

Cheers,
Edy

[Pelagic]

Hey Edy, if I were you I will approach the party selling you the rod to start the 'claim' process asap.

Not sure how much (freight, rod price, etc) you have to bear though.
Your rod should come with a warranty card.
I think that document may be important.

[edylie]

Hi Pelagic,

I have left the warranty card with the shop when I bought the rod

Yes, I am going to the shop today for assistance on this.

Thanks,
Edy