Bluewater Fishing Expedition

stickbom! · 15-08-2006, 07:55 PM

I've been wondering about this for the longest time

Why on earth are those bait fishing boat rods by Shimano/Daiwa soooooo long? I mean, here we are trying to get away with as short a rod as we can when bottom bashing while the Japanese market is flooded with long rods. If I'm not mistaken, this does not only apply to catching squid/bait fish. Even when targeting HUGE Groupers, Amberjack, Yellowtail and other large bottom dwelling species, the Japanese are fond of using these long, high glass content sticks. I think its a little more than "personal satisfaction/ retro feel" to this so can someone pleeeeeease enlighten us?

Makaira · 15-08-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickbom!

I've been wondering about this for the longest time

Why on earth are those bait fishing boat rods by Shimano/Daiwa soooooo long? I mean, here we are trying to get away with as short a rod as we can when bottom bashing while the Japanese market is flooded with long rods. If I'm not mistaken, this does not only apply to catching squid/bait fish. Even when targeting HUGE Groupers, Amberjack, Yellowtail and other large bottom dwelling species, the Japanese are fond of using these long, high glass content sticks. I think its a little more than "personal satisfaction/ retro feel" to this so can someone pleeeeeease enlighten us?

Sometimes it's hard to figure out what the Japanese think when it comes to fishing tackle. It could be they are used with electric reels & PE line so a longer rod is preferred for it's shock absorbing qualities -- have u seen Go!Hokkaido Fishing on Ch 69 -- or maybe to keep the line away from the boat when the fish is at colour & it dives under the boat, or maybe they need a long rod to handle / jig the multi-hook pre-tied Sabiki-type rigs. Why not ask your Japanese connections & get the answer from the horse's mouth and share it with us dude. Should be interesting; because a long rod on a sounding big fish in deep water is murder on the angler.

MarkR · 15-08-2006, 10:01 PM

Interesting question Mikey, I have pondered on the same issue in the past. Personally think it's a "style" thing, just like the strong Japanese love for spinning reels.

cheers

**Narc** · 15-08-2006, 10:03 PM

Hi!
I'm new to fishing.
Could it be an overdone effort to cover up for other inept and SHORT-comings?!

I don't think its just Daiwa and Shimano rods. CB-one's rod are pretty long as well right?

stickbom! · 16-08-2006, 11:06 AM

WAHAHAHAHAHA!! Narc... mai ani kuan... dun drag CB ONE into the picture... my Saurus Char-Mas 90H jigging rod lagi long

Makaira I'm asking around for a answer. Will update soon as I can.

Daveirving · 21-08-2006, 05:43 PM

For bass fishing in the UK I used to use rods from 9ft up to 11ft long from the boat....this used to get some strange looks from other anglers!

The reason I used them was because we were drifting with livebaits for fish that are easily spooked. Choppy seas meant that using short stiff rods, the livebait would be jerked around unnnaturally and the bass would be spooked. Using a longer more flexible rod meant I could keep the bait fairly constantly close to the bottom in a much more natural way.

Not sure what the Japanese are targeting but perhaps the same approach works for them?

Cheers

Dave

stickbom! · 21-08-2006, 10:10 PM

Okay here's what I found out-

"To reach out furthur, to manage long rigs, to move fish up faster per stroke, to retain tension on line throughout even when the boat rocks and also to see rod bending"

Dave Irving almost got it right!! Oh by the way, this piece of info comes from a reliable source

TPfisherman · 02-11-2006, 10:35 AM

Not just the Japanese. In NorthEast USA, it is common to see people do Cod fishing from boats with 8 foot long rods and multiplier reels. In California USA, one of Calstar's top-selling partyboat rods is 8 feet long, too. Can't remember the model number offhand; I will have to check with the factory website.

Some people believe that it is easier to handle a twisting, turning, running, zig-zagging fish near the boat with a slightly longer rod. Me? I don't know what to believe. I find long rod or short rod, the fish end up in the boat also.

DaFrogman · 03-11-2006, 11:50 PM

I used to fish with a 7 foot long Kilwell boat rod that had a pretty fast action, as Makaira would say, it was a "Gonzo" rod.... but after being punished badly by a 12kg Amberjack that just over powered me on 20lbs of drag on that rod, my next rod was a 24kg stroker..... that rod certainly got me addicted to 5.5ft standup rods.

That said, the heavier composite Calstars that are pretty Gonzo in their own right, can be punishing on the angler that isn't used to these fast action rods. Its interesting that I found the composite Calstar GF755H a lot stiffer than its heavier rated Fibreglass brother; the TS6455XH, but the fibre rod is just heavier and more bulky. I have also noticed that the number and placement of different types of guides (e.g. roller vs ring) also affects the action of the same blank greatly. My GF755H roller with only 6 guides is a lot softer than my 755H with 7 Sics..... But if you are handling "No Mercy" situations, these broomsticks really shine...

For now, with small boat fishing, heavy sinkers and structure, I will stick with my 5.5ft rods.

Just My 5.5c guys....

Saimee

stickbom! · 04-11-2006, 08:05 AM

Ahem... "gonzo" is from me lar

DaFrogman · 04-11-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickbom!

Ahem... "gonzo" is from me lar

My apologies Mikey, imitation is the best form of flattery...

Saimee

stickbom! · 06-11-2006, 03:48 PM

Makaira is the biggest Calstar fan on this face of the planet! How can he possibly give GF names? hehehe He'll probably call Japanese rods funny names but not good ol Calstar blanks for sure

Makaira showed me a GF600M there other day when we met in AO... I was damn tempted to ask Benji to built me a tadpole jig stick! Very very nice action I tell you

Makaira · 06-11-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickbom!

Makaira is the biggest Calstar fan on this face of the planet! How can he possibly give GF names? hehehe He'll probably call Japanese rods funny names but not good ol Calstar blanks for sure

Makaira showed me a GF600M there other day when we met in AO... I was damn tempted to ask Benji to built me a tadpole jig stick! Very very nice action I tell you

I like GUSA too

I do give Calstars names ...... like Monster Buster, Marlin Tamer, Grouper Conquerer, Snapper Wacker, etc.

Jokes aside, I could tell your interest was tickled when you pulled on the GF600M

Just took delivery of the pair from LT last night. Will give you some feedback after using it this coming weekend

DaFrogman · 06-11-2006, 10:06 PM

Someday, someday, I shall have a GF with an "M" on the end of its name....

If only they made a GF755M......

Mikey, actually a couple of guys here had me get Ben to build up GF760Ms to my specs for them and they are using them as bottom sticks... I reckon that the action is still a tad fast and stiff to be called a true "Tadpole" stick... maybe something like a GF700ML would qualify or even better a 600XL... "Mosquito Larvae" rod....

Mak,

You reckon I could get one teensy stick built by LT?.... I would call it the DaFroggies LT Special

Saimee

tmlim · 07-11-2006, 12:25 AM

The action of the rod is deliberately retarded by increasing its length, and further flexibility is induced by employing material such E-glass with lower Young Modulus. Typically, the Young Modulus of E-glass is 1/4 that of Carbon Fiber.

The limitation with E-glass is that its tensile yield stress is only slightly 2/3 of carbon fiber, and worse still its compressive yield stress is only one half. Unless technology breakthrough has pushed yield stress for E-glass to greater level, rods made with E-glass should have wall thickness twice that of carbon fiber. It is to withstand the bending compressive stress and avoid breakage during moderate high sticking.

stickbom! · 07-11-2006, 06:28 AM

Prof Richard! Long time no see!! Hows things going man?

Hey I bought a bulk spool of Super Silver Thread from Basspro and really like it.

Saimee, the 600M has a lot more pull in it than the 600XL. One of my early jigging sticks was built on a 600XL and that landed me quite a few decent fishes. Seriously if it wasn't for the arrival of Shimano's Jig Wrex I wouldn't even blink an eye before jumping on the 600M. Oh by the way, I'm talking about price factor here... not comparing performance. Both Calstar and Shimano makes excellent rods/blanks IMO.

Makaira · 08-11-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFrogman

You reckon I could get one teensy stick built by LT?.... I would call it the DaFroggies LT Special

Saimee

Yo Saimee,

I believe I have given you LT's contact details before. You can always give him a call or email for a quote

Best regards,
Makaira

DaFrogman · 08-11-2006, 01:50 PM

Mak,

Yup I have LTs contact details somewhere I think, I just hope it wasn't on one of my Singtel sim cards that seems to have gone AWOL... If not you will be getting a PM some time

Lemme find a blank worthy of the man first then I'll give it a go.

Saimee

15-08-2006, 07:55 PM	#1
stickbom! Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Eastern Sider Posts: 1,996 My Mood: Rep Power: 6	Why so long?! I've been wondering about this for the longest time Why on earth are those bait fishing boat rods by Shimano/Daiwa soooooo long? I mean, here we are trying to get away with as short a rod as we can when bottom bashing while the Japanese market is flooded with long rods. If I'm not mistaken, this does not only apply to catching squid/bait fish. Even when targeting HUGE Groupers, Amberjack, Yellowtail and other large bottom dwelling species, the Japanese are fond of using these long, high glass content sticks. I think its a little more than "personal satisfaction/ retro feel" to this so can someone pleeeeeease enlighten us?

15-08-2006, 10:03 PM	#4
Narc Service Provider Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: sin Posts: 176 Rep Power: 3	Hi! I'm new to fishing. Could it be an overdone effort to cover up for other inept and SHORT-comings?! I don't think its just Daiwa and Shimano rods. CB-one's rod are pretty long as well right? __________________ http://sg.msnusers.com/AhGu/_whatsnew.msnw www.kaiserfishingservices.com

21-08-2006, 10:10 PM	#7
stickbom! Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Eastern Sider Posts: 1,996 My Mood: Rep Power: 6	Okay here's what I found out- "To reach out furthur, to manage long rigs, to move fish up faster per stroke, to retain tension on line throughout even when the boat rocks and also to see rod bending" Dave Irving almost got it right!! Oh by the way, this piece of info comes from a reliable source Last edited by stickbom! : 22-08-2006 at 07:31 PM.

03-11-2006, 11:50 PM	#9
DaFrogman Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brunei Posts: 738 My Mood: Rep Power: 4	I used to fish with a 7 foot long Kilwell boat rod that had a pretty fast action, as Makaira would say, it was a "Gonzo" rod.... but after being punished badly by a 12kg Amberjack that just over powered me on 20lbs of drag on that rod, my next rod was a 24kg stroker..... that rod certainly got me addicted to 5.5ft standup rods. That said, the heavier composite Calstars that are pretty Gonzo in their own right, can be punishing on the angler that isn't used to these fast action rods. Its interesting that I found the composite Calstar GF755H a lot stiffer than its heavier rated Fibreglass brother; the TS6455XH, but the fibre rod is just heavier and more bulky. I have also noticed that the number and placement of different types of guides (e.g. roller vs ring) also affects the action of the same blank greatly. My GF755H roller with only 6 guides is a lot softer than my 755H with 7 Sics..... But if you are handling "No Mercy" situations, these broomsticks really shine... For now, with small boat fishing, heavy sinkers and structure, I will stick with my 5.5ft rods. Just My 5.5c guys.... Saimee __________________ "...a man only hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..." Simon & Garfunkel "The Boxer"

06-11-2006, 10:06 PM	#14
DaFrogman Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brunei Posts: 738 My Mood: Rep Power: 4	Someday, someday, I shall have a GF with an "M" on the end of its name.... If only they made a GF755M...... Mikey, actually a couple of guys here had me get Ben to build up GF760Ms to my specs for them and they are using them as bottom sticks... I reckon that the action is still a tad fast and stiff to be called a true "Tadpole" stick... maybe something like a GF700ML would qualify or even better a 600XL... "Mosquito Larvae" rod.... Mak, You reckon I could get one teensy stick built by LT?.... I would call it the DaFroggies LT Special Saimee __________________ "...a man only hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..." Simon & Garfunkel "The Boxer"

15-08-2006, 10:01 PM	#3
MarkR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,013 My Mood: Rep Power: 6	Interesting question Mikey, I have pondered on the same issue in the past. Personally think it's a "style" thing, just like the strong Japanese love for spinning reels. cheers

16-08-2006, 11:06 AM	#5
stickbom! Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Eastern Sider Posts: 1,996 My Mood: Rep Power: 6	WAHAHAHAHAHA!! Narc... mai ani kuan... dun drag CB ONE into the picture... my Saurus Char-Mas 90H jigging rod lagi long Makaira I'm asking around for a answer. Will update soon as I can.

21-08-2006, 05:43 PM	#6
Daveirving Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Yokohama Posts: 53 Rep Power: 4	For bass fishing in the UK I used to use rods from 9ft up to 11ft long from the boat....this used to get some strange looks from other anglers! The reason I used them was because we were drifting with livebaits for fish that are easily spooked. Choppy seas meant that using short stiff rods, the livebait would be jerked around unnnaturally and the bass would be spooked. Using a longer more flexible rod meant I could keep the bait fairly constantly close to the bottom in a much more natural way. Not sure what the Japanese are targeting but perhaps the same approach works for them? Cheers Dave

02-11-2006, 10:35 AM	#8
TPfisherman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: United States Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	Not just the Japanese. In NorthEast USA, it is common to see people do Cod fishing from boats with 8 foot long rods and multiplier reels. In California USA, one of Calstar's top-selling partyboat rods is 8 feet long, too. Can't remember the model number offhand; I will have to check with the factory website. Some people believe that it is easier to handle a twisting, turning, running, zig-zagging fish near the boat with a slightly longer rod. Me? I don't know what to believe. I find long rod or short rod, the fish end up in the boat also.

04-11-2006, 08:05 AM	#10
stickbom! Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Eastern Sider Posts: 1,996 My Mood: Rep Power: 6	Ahem... "gonzo" is from me lar

06-11-2006, 03:48 PM	#12
stickbom! Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Eastern Sider Posts: 1,996 My Mood: Rep Power: 6	Makaira is the biggest Calstar fan on this face of the planet! How can he possibly give GF names? hehehe He'll probably call Japanese rods funny names but not good ol Calstar blanks for sure Makaira showed me a GF600M there other day when we met in AO... I was damn tempted to ask Benji to built me a tadpole jig stick! Very very nice action I tell you

07-11-2006, 12:25 AM	#15
tmlim Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Posts: 66 Rep Power: 4	The action of the rod is deliberately retarded by increasing its length, and further flexibility is induced by employing material such E-glass with lower Young Modulus. Typically, the Young Modulus of E-glass is 1/4 that of Carbon Fiber. The limitation with E-glass is that its tensile yield stress is only slightly 2/3 of carbon fiber, and worse still its compressive yield stress is only one half. Unless technology breakthrough has pushed yield stress for E-glass to greater level, rods made with E-glass should have wall thickness twice that of carbon fiber. It is to withstand the bending compressive stress and avoid breakage during moderate high sticking.

07-11-2006, 06:28 AM	#16
stickbom! Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Eastern Sider Posts: 1,996 My Mood: Rep Power: 6	Prof Richard! Long time no see!! Hows things going man? Hey I bought a bulk spool of Super Silver Thread from Basspro and really like it. Saimee, the 600M has a lot more pull in it than the 600XL. One of my early jigging sticks was built on a 600XL and that landed me quite a few decent fishes. Seriously if it wasn't for the arrival of Shimano's Jig Wrex I wouldn't even blink an eye before jumping on the 600M. Oh by the way, I'm talking about price factor here... not comparing performance. Both Calstar and Shimano makes excellent rods/blanks IMO. Last edited by stickbom! : 07-11-2006 at 06:36 AM.

08-11-2006, 01:50 PM	#18
DaFrogman Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brunei Posts: 738 My Mood: Rep Power: 4	Mak, Yup I have LTs contact details somewhere I think, I just hope it wasn't on one of my Singtel sim cards that seems to have gone AWOL... If not you will be getting a PM some time Lemme find a blank worthy of the man first then I'll give it a go. Saimee __________________ "...a man only hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..." Simon & Garfunkel "The Boxer"

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Bluewater Fishing Expedition

Why so long?!

Why so long?!