Trolling

[gubble80]

Hi guys when trolling for toothy fishes like tenggiri, is it wise to use steel leader to prevent bite offs due to its sharp teeth but suffer a drop in bite rate and restrict the movement of the lure?? Or should i just use normal shock/FC leader and my worries are uncalled for??

[tripleK]

Hi Gubble80,

Wire leader is definitely a must when trolling for mackerels, barracudas etc.
You wouldn't want to lose the prize catch or the special lures.

BTW where are u considering trolling? Boatmen are also the best person to ask for assistance regarding rigging of the trolling lures. As the locals will definitely know the fishes better than us.


Cheers

[Makaira]

Hi G80,

As TripleK said, wire is required when trolling plugs for the toothy critters.

If done properly, wire will not affect the action of the lure. We are not talking about small casting minnows that are very sensitive to leader thickness here. What does affects the strike rate for trolling plugs is the the tuning of it, i.e. make sure it tracks straight in the trolling spread. Depending on what you are using, the tuning can be done either bending the tow point, or in the case of plugs with metal bibs like the Rapala CDs, the bib itself. Just remember that minute adjustments will do. Also do not tune the lure unnecessarily. If it tracks good out-the-box, leave it alone. When it starts to track funny after a fish or two when it gets thrashed on the deck or what have you, then do the necessary adjustments.

With bibless lures like the Yozuri Bonita & plastic bibbed lure like the Halco Laserpro 190, bend the tow point the way you want the lure to track. For example, if you find the lure keeps on going to the left & then flip out of the water, use a flatnosed pliers to bend the tow ring to the right & vice-versa.

For the Rapala CD's that have a metal bib, to tune the lure to track straight, you will have to bend the bib itself. To bend the bib properly without destroying the lure totally, grab hold of the thickest part of the bib totally with a flatnosed pliers on one hand, get a firm grip on the body of the lure keeping the hooks out of the way in the other. With the lure facing you head on, if the lure is tracking too much to the left, bend the entire metal bib slightly to the right i.e. an UPWARD motion to the left side of the bib. If it is tracking to the right, bend the entire bib slightly to the left i.e. a DOWNWARD motion to the left of the bib. Drop the lure back into the water to see if it tracks straight. If it doesn't, reel it back up & do the necessary tuning. Confused yet?? Try it a few times & you will get it

When it comes to the wire leader, my preference is to use 49 strand coffee / brown colour wire. Of utmost importance is to use the correct size sleeves/crimps & a good quality crimping tool. As kiasu as I am, I always double crimp my wire leaders. Do not use aluminium sleeves for crimping wire as it will not be strong enough for heavy usage. Length-wise, my wire leaders are usually about 18 inches with a swivel at one end & a snap swivel at the end to facilitate ease of change lures. As far as how heavy a wire to use, I normally use wire under 100lbs, depending on where I fish. Again, depending on the gear you are using & the area you are fishing, the lighter & thinner the gauge you can get away with, the better for less visibility. I usually get my wire from Sabre Tackle as they sell sleeves that correspond correctly to the wire gauge. I believe they sell both American Wire & Malin Wire.


Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Makaira

[gubble80]

Originally Posted by tripleK

Hi Gubble80,

Wire leader is definitely a must when trolling for mackerels, barracudas etc.
You wouldn't want to lose the prize catch or the special lures.

BTW where are u considering trolling? Boatmen are also the best person to ask for assistance regarding rigging of the trolling lures. As the locals will definitely know the fishes better than us.


Cheers

thanks triplek hope to fish with u on ah cheng boat one day.. nowadays his boat is usually fully booked..

[gubble80]

Originally Posted by Makaira

Hi G80,

As TripleK said, wire is required when trolling plugs for the toothy critters.

If done properly, wire will not affect the action of the lure. We are not talking about small casting minnows that are very sensitive to leader thickness here. What does affects the strike rate for trolling plugs is the the tuning of it, i.e. make sure it tracks straight in the trolling spread. Depending on what you are using, the tuning can be done either bending the tow point, or in the case of plugs with metal bibs like the Rapala CDs, the bib itself. Just remember that minute adjustments will do. Also do not tune the lure unnecessarily. If it tracks good out-the-box, leave it alone. When it starts to track funny after a fish or two when it gets thrashed on the deck or what have you, then do the necessary adjustments.

With bibless lures like the Yozuri Bonita & plastic bibbed lure like the Halco Laserpro 190, bend the tow point the way you want the lure to track. For example, if you find the lure keeps on going to the left & then flip out of the water, use a flatnosed pliers to bend the tow ring to the right & vice-versa.

For the Rapala CD's that have a metal bib, to tune the lure to track straight, you will have to bend the bib itself. To bend the bib properly without destroying the lure totally, grab hold of the thickest part of the bib totally with a flatnosed pliers on one hand, get a firm grip on the body of the lure keeping the hooks out of the way in the other. With the lure facing you head on, if the lure is tracking too much to the left, bend the entire metal bib slightly to the right i.e. an UPWARD motion to the left side of the bib. If it is tracking to the right, bend the entire bib slightly to the left i.e. a DOWNWARD motion to the left of the bib. Drop the lure back into the water to see if it tracks straight. If it doesn't, reel it back up & do the necessary tuning. Confused yet?? Try it a few times & you will get it

When it comes to the wire leader, my preference is to use 49 strand coffee / brown colour wire. Of utmost importance is to use the correct size sleeves/crimps & a good quality crimping tool. As kiasu as I am, I always double crimp my wire leaders. Do not use aluminium sleeves for crimping wire as it will not be strong enough for heavy usage. Length-wise, my wire leaders are usually about 18 inches with a swivel at one end & a snap swivel at the end to facilitate ease of change lures. As far as how heavy a wire to use, I normally use wire under 100lbs, depending on where I fish. Again, depending on the gear you are using & the area you are fishing, the lighter & thinner the gauge you can get away with, the better for less visibility. I usually get my wire from Sabre Tackle as they sell sleeves that correspond correctly to the wire gauge. I believe they sell both American Wire & Malin Wire.


Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Makaira

Thanks mak, wat a good info on how to tune the lure and spot on again.. im using rapala CD to troll for tengirri.. definitely needs a few tries to tune it right if needed..
As kiasu as u, i do double crimping too but im using the copper sleeves instead.. Wonder if it is better than aluminium.. As for the steel wire, i got my 7 X 7 from joe's.. Found them quite quite flexible and not rigid.. Will try out the other types that u said..

Cheers
Melvin

[Makaira]

Hi Melvin,

Do try out the Halco Laserpro 190 deep diver. Works very well for batang, wahoo, yellowfin, skipjack, bonito & have even caught marlins with it. Works very well in Tanjung Pinang waters too. Gave a few to my friend earlier this year & he caught quite a number batangs with them. The Halco Laserpro is a very hardy lure. Takes the knocks & keeps on working!!! The rattlers inside the body is an added "stimulant" to draw strikes from fish imho. The stock hooks & splitrings are ok if you do not fish with too high a drag setting. Just remember to remove the wimpy split ring & use a snap directly onto the tow point.

As for aluminium sleeves, they are perfect for crimping mono & not great for wire.

BTW, if your reel is loaded with braided line, I suggest using a mono shock leader of 20 feet or so when trolling for some measure of "stretch." As the mouth of the tengirri is not that hard, lighter drag setting is my preference when targetting them. If you are using a leverdrag reel, you don't need to put the lever at strike. Depending on what your strike drag is & the drag curve of the reel used, perhaps halfway or two-thirds will do; push it up to strike only if needed.

Good luck!!

Best regards,
Makaira

[th2x]

Originally Posted by Makaira

Do try out the Halco Laserpro 190 deep diver......

Hi Makaira,

May i know where could i possibly get hold of 1 of this and whats the costs like? Am going over to Tanjung Pinang over the weekend and see if I could do some trolling over there. Many thanks!

Cheers!
th2x

[Makaira]

Originally Posted by th2x

Hi Makaira,

May i know where could i possibly get hold of 1 of this and whats the costs like? Am going over to Tanjung Pinang over the weekend and see if I could do some trolling over there. Many thanks!

Cheers!
th2x

Hi th2x,

Sabre Tackle has it. Colour-wise, go for the Pilchard or Chrome /Metallic Redhead. Remember, it's the deep diver .... NOT the Crazy Deep. It should cost between $12-20 or so. Can't remember exactly how much. Good luck!

Best regards,
Makaira

[hdmcgatha]

Hi Gubble80,
I do a LOT of Trolling for the toothy critters here around Phuket. I like to use the X-Rap Mag 30 by Repala and also the Storm luer R/W. I like them because they get down deeper and can be trolled at a good speed. They run great out of the box but sometimes after many bites or deck damage they will have to be re-tuned. I also use a 120lb 49 strand black pvc coated leader (Barkley) which I use (2) dbl crimps and #6 bb swivels and snap swivels. This rig seems to work Great for me. My leader length is between 1.5 and 2m. I Like the Repala X-Rap Mag 30 SBM and the Storm R/W best for around here. I seem to get more strikes on these when the moon phase is just less than half and just over half threw just before the new and full moon. They do not seem to work to well for me on the new moon, full moon or at half moon phases.

[th2x]

Originally Posted by Makaira

Hi th2x,

Sabre Tackle has it. Colour-wise, go for the Pilchard or Chrome /Metallic Redhead. Remember, it's the deep diver .... NOT the Crazy Deep. It should cost between $12-20 or so. Can't remember exactly how much. Good luck!

Best regards,
Makaira

Hi Makaira,

Many thanks. Appreciate it.
Will go and check it out.

Just one more question.....
Is there a "suggested/recommended" boat speed when we do trolling?
Hearsay so far that the speed of the boat cannot be too fast.

Cheers!
th2x

Sorry Gubble80 for "hijacking" your thread. Cheers!

[Makaira]

Originally Posted by th2x

Just one more question.....
Is there a "suggested/recommended" boat speed when we do trolling?
Hearsay so far that the speed of the boat cannot be too fast.

Hi thx2,

As far as trolling speed is concerned, it is more a case of monitoring the speed so that the lures "work" & track properly rather than to go slow enough for the fish to strike it.

For lures with bib, I wouldn't go faster than 4-5 knots or so. Bibless lures in general track better at higher speeds. I would also vary the speed over the trolling period. To assist in keeping the lure on in the water, I often use the Aftco roller troller when trolling at higher speeds when moving between spots during bottom bashing sessions.

Another thing to keep in mind is distance of the lure from the boat. I usually start pretty close to the boat, perhaps the 3rd wave or so i.e. the wake of the boat, & gradually let it out further & bring it back closer again just to vary the pattern. You will be surprised how close a fish will come to strike a lure. I've caught many wahoos with the lure just behind the prop wash.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Makaira

[th2x]

Many thanks Makaira, really informative.
Will see if I can get anything.......

Thanks again!

[gubble80]

Originally Posted by th2x

Hi Makaira,

Many thanks. Appreciate it.
Will go and check it out.

Just one more question.....
Is there a "suggested/recommended" boat speed when we do trolling?
Hearsay so far that the speed of the boat cannot be too fast.

Cheers!
th2x

Sorry Gubble80 for "hijacking" your thread. Cheers!

no worries th2x, i will be going to Tanjung Pinang on the oct 21 to 23 too.. Wish u good luck this weekend!

[th2x]

Originally Posted by gubble80

no worries th2x, i will be going to Tanjung Pinang on the oct 21 to 23 too.. Wish u good luck this weekend!

Hi gubble80,

Thanks! Wish you good luck for your 21 to 23 Oct Trip too.

Cheers!
th2x

[th2x]

Hi Makaira,

Pop in to Sabre Tackles yesterday, the Halco Laserpro 190 deep diver is out of stock. Left only 2 colours which i figure is not so popular since still got quite a few pieces on display. Asked over the counter and was told at least 2 months before next shipment!
I gotten the Halco Socceror 150 DD 3.5meters depth white/redhead instead. Hopefully it works just as well.
Cost abot $11plus. Relatively cheaper than Rapalas....

Cheers!
th2x

P/S: Another question came to my mind, does any angler do trolling at night?

[Makaira]

Hi th2x,

I am surprised. What colour was in stock ?

Laser Pro 190 /160.


The Scorcerer is more of a casting plug than a trolling lure & as such will not track very well in trolling situations for open water given the boat speed travelling point to point. If the Laser Pro 190 is not in stock, I'd rather get the 160 in the right colour than a Scorcerer. Otherwise, you'd be better off using the Rapala CD or the X-rap as suggested by Dan.

As for night trolling, I have not specifically tried it & at times when I did, and it's only because we were too lazy to reel the lures in at the end of a long day's fishing The only thing I've caught trolling at night is bonito. Having said that, on nights where there is a full bright moon in the sky, there's no harm in trying because that's when tengirris are very active. In places where they target broadbills, they do troll lumo skirts with heads lit with a cyalume stick insert or some battery operated light of some kind.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Makaira

[th2x]

Originally Posted by Makaira

Hi th2x,

.....What colour was in stock ?....

Hi Makaira,

I could not find any 160 on display, only the 120 models in stock, i figure they are a little too small.
In stock, I think is H52 Fluro Green and other i think is H58 mackeral blue(not too sure)...Do you think they are ok? If yes, i may hop over to grab one before my trip..

Well, guess i will try out the Sorcerer 150 and see how it comes out....

Thanks!
th2x

[th2x]

Hi Makaira,

May I know how do we set the reel for trolling as in the drag?
Do we use free spool and lock via the clicker (line out alarm) or do we lock but lessen the drag to a point where a slight pull will result in line out?

Many Thanks!
th2x

[Makaira]

Originally Posted by th2x

Hi Makaira,

May I know how do we set the reel for trolling as in the drag?
Do we use free spool and lock via the clicker (line out alarm) or do we lock but lessen the drag to a point where a slight pull will result in line out?

Many Thanks!
th2x

Hi th2x,

For all intents & purposes, you will need some drag to set the hook when the fish strikes when trolling plugs. For tengirri; which has a relatively soft mouth, you do not need to push the lever to strike -- just halfway to strike will suffice. Having sharp hooks will of course help in sinking the hooks into the jaws of the fish.

When slow trolling live or rigged dead baits for billfish, that is another story altogether. In this instance, free-spool with the clicker on or just enough drag (with clicker on) to hold the bait in the spread will do. When there is a take, we usually let the fish take line at free spool & push the lever to strike & set the hook only when the fish makes "the turn." This so called "turn" is usually signalled by the increased speed of the fish swimming away from the boat. When this happens, the bait is usually being swallowed as opposed to just being "mouthed." If the angler strikes prematurely, the angler simply yanks the bait & hook out of the fish's mouth without sinking the hooks into the jaws.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Makaira

[th2x]

Originally Posted by Makaira

Hi th2x,

For all intents & purposes, you will need some drag to set the hook when the fish strikes when trolling plugs. For tengirri; which has a relatively soft mouth, you do not need to push the lever to strike -- just halfway to strike will suffice. Having sharp hooks will of course help in sinking the hooks into the jaws of the fish.

When slow trolling live or rigged dead baits for billfish, that is another story altogether. In this instance, free-spool with the clicker on or just enough drag (with clicker on) to hold the bait in the spread will do. When there is a take, we usually let the fish take line at free spool & push the lever to strike & set the hook only when the fish makes "the turn." This so called "turn" is usually signalled by the increased speed of the fish swimming away from the boat. When this happens, the bait is usually being swallowed as opposed to just being "mouthed." If the angler strikes prematurely, the angler simply yanks the bait & hook out of the fish's mouth without sinking the hooks into the jaws.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Makaira

Hi Makaira,

I understand your explanations except its seems that since i am using a star drag configuration reel, I would not be able to push the level to halfway to stirke. Is it that for trolling purposes, most people uses level drag configuration drag for that matter? I do notice a lot of big game reels comes with the level drag configuration as opposes to the medium size game reels.

Thanks!
th2x

[Makaira]

Originally Posted by th2x

Hi Makaira,

I understand your explanations except its seems that since i am using a star drag configuration reel, I would not be able to push the level to halfway to stirke. Is it that for trolling purposes, most people uses level drag configuration drag for that matter? I do notice a lot of big game reels comes with the level drag configuration as opposes to the medium size game reels.

Thanks!
th2x

Hi th2x

It's perfectly fine to troll with a star drag reel. You just don't have the luxury of playing with the drag with a certain degree of confidence.


Best regards,
Makaira

[th2x]

Further Questions On Trolling

Hi Guys,

Somehow somehow landed myself with a Shimano TLD30II which I have every intention to use it for trolling/bottom fishing.

1. Should I be loading the reel with mono or braided lines? Search forums and read and found many different opinions. Some say trolling should have mono lines, some say can use braided lines...

2. What rod would be suitable to match this reel? Can a trolling rod be suitable for bottom fishing as well?

3. Should I be getting a rod with a roller tip or not? But if I load the reel in mentioned with braided lines and use together with a roller tip rod, will the line may get jammed at the roller tip?

Appreciate all suggestions and comments.

Thanking all in advance!
th2x

[rodbender]

wow... a TLD... bro.. you really investing in trolling huh ?

BTW... where you intend to troll and what size (of fish)you intending to bring up? This usually will help to decide on what type of rod.. roller or not.. etc etc..