Sinkers: A Weighty Question

[DaFrogman]

I figured I would post this separately but it relates directly to a request to share some thoughts on sinker making by another forummer; Mr Seahorse dude who asked me;

Originally Posted by seahorse@SZ7678H

I do melt my own weight too.(300g,500g,800g & 1kg) but really have to handle with care. I,m sure u knows how and maybe u can teach our kaki here too

Seahorse dude,

Yes, I have been making my own weights for quite a few years, but still find myself buying commercially made ones when I don't have the time to do more.

Firstly SAFETY . Lead is a toxic metal and should be treated very carefully. Melted/molten lead is REALLY HOT and it will burn through clothes, leather gloves, skin, flesh, tendons and eyeballs. Be very careful with molten lead, remember that it can splatter like any other fluid or liquid medium and it can boil and bubble too. Wear thick leather gloves when handling the metal melting pots and weight moulds. Eye protection is mandatory too. Keep children and pets away (lest the kids get hurt or even worst pick up dangerous ideas like me at age 9). One other good idea is a thick apron, leather is best or heavy canvas. That can help reduce burns to body and clothing.

Secondly, when lead melts it can give off poisonous fumes. For this reason, don't try melting lead indoors if at all possible. If you do have to do it indoors, make sure you have very good ventilation and a fan or extractor fan on.

I usually use a portable gas stove to melt lead. You can hook it up to a domestic cooking gas source and pipe it outside your backdoor/kitchen so you can work outside.

For melting lead, I prefer a cast iron milk pot.... basically use a pot that has a pouring spout as this will make it a lot easier to pour your lead accurately and quickly (before it cools) saving you time and spilt lead in the process. Do remember/realise that using a pot to melt lead will render it useless for doing just about anything else that is culinary related, SO PLEASE USE A POT THAT YOU CAN THROW AWAY. Do not use your missus's favorite soup pot or your mum's favorite copper bottomed stainless steel saucepan....The consequences for these kinds of screwups are probably worse than being burned by molten lead.... you have been warned.

Scrap lead can be bought commercially, usually in a package of small square plates that weigh a kilo. You can also try frequenting junkyards and recycling centres or be imaginitive and look for scrap electrical cables with lead sheathing and the sinkers on discarded fishing nets. The mother of all sinkers are the ones used by commercial circle net boats, where each sinker weighs a hefty 5-10kg, I tried begging one off a commercial boat but just got a smile in response (but I did get a free ride and fish off that boat too ). AVOID using old battery terminals from lead acid batteries as I have been told that the lead from these is contaminated with sulphides and gives off even more toxic fumes.

EL-CHEAPO WAY

Firstly you need some sort of mold to shape the sinker. The easiest, cheapest and crudest mold is the sand mold. I used this method as a kid (Told ya kids can pick up dangerous ideas).

1. Basically you get a bucket of sand and use a rod or even a broomstick to make a cylindrical hole in the sand.

2. Then get hold of some thick 1-2mm single strand copper wire like you get from big commercial electrical cables and cut off about 3 inches and twist that to form a loop that you haywire twist. you can use the two tag ends of the twisted tail section to make small hooks that will stick in the molten lead and stop the sinker eye beng pulled out on a cast or minor snag.

3. Use a pair of needle nose pliers to stick the wire loop into the bottom of the hole you made in the sand until the loop is fully buried in the sand with the twisted tail section sticking up into the hole.

4. Melt your lead and pour it into the hole. When it cools just pull out the lead cylinder with the wire loop now sticking out to tie your leader or rig to.

Like I said this is the crudest way to do it in my view and I made my first weights this way at the tender age of about 9 or 10 with scrap lead from the cutoff scraps of big electrical cable shields and also wire from those same cables.

STAINLESS STEEL/COPPER "COOL" WEIGHTS

1. If you happen to know a friend or contractor that does work using stainless steel pipes to make safety and decorative railings, or maybe a guy who does plumbing or aircon work, pay his workshop a visit and look at all those lovely 0.5-1.5 inch diameter bits of scrap stainless steel or copper piping lying around the shop. Ask if you can have some of these scraps if he doesn't want them..... chances are he would be happy to let you take the lot and save him having to waste his time gathering them and throwing them away.

2. I find that sections of 1 inch diameter piping from 4-6 inches long are the easiest to work with. If he gives you scrap piping thats a bit too long or can be used to make 2-3 sections of suitably shorter piping, then ask to borrow his big cutoff saw (every metalworking place has one or two) so you can quickly cut the pipe to length and save yourself headaches and elbowaches later using a hacksaw to do the same thing. A big cutoff saw can do in 5 seconds what it might take you 5 minutes of sweat and toil to do with a hacksaw. You might also borrow his bench grinder to take the sharp edges off the pipes and to true up uneven pipe ends, but thats up to you and the mood of your contractor acquaintance. (I have a bench grinder and a hand grinder at home, so I sometimes just grab the piping and run).

3. Take the pieces of piping home and figure a way out to plug one end of the piping off so that you can fill it with lead. I basically like using the bucket of sand still, so I would poke a hole in the sand and do the same thing as the first technique, by sticking a wire eye section in the bottom of the hole, but this time, I put the piping in the hole prior to pouring to act as the walls of the finished sinker. I like this method because it provides a plug for the end of the pipe and acts to hold the pipe upright without using a frame or vice. You only need to make a shallow sand hole for this method since all you need is a hole deep enough to keep the pipe standing up. I sometimes also substitute the copper wire loop with a big el-cheapo brass swivel.

4. Pour in your melted lead and when it cools you will have a pretty perfectly cylindrical and SS/Copper sheathed sinker that can be almost too pretty to use. If you used a swivel instead of the copper wire to make the sinker eye, then you will usually end up with a nice sinker eye that rotates just like a swivel... very nice for Apollo rigs. You can even use discarded shell casings this way, but you might get some funny looks. 7.62mm casings are nice for small sinkers, but .50 Cal or even 20mm casings would make awesome offshore sinkers.

MOST EXPENSIVE BUT EASIEST OPTION-READY MADE OR CUSTOM MOLDS

You can buy ready made lead molds made from cast iron and aluminium alloy, from some fishing shops, I have seen them in some Beach Road shops, but can't quite remember which ones. I bought my sets yonks ago in Brisbane and I mainly use the biggest sized snapper lead molds.

The advantage of ready made molds is of course that they can provide you with a wide variety of sinker shapes, weights and the ability to make multiple sinkers in one pour of lead. The molds are also reusable and and some come with nice features like built in clamps, wooden lined holding handles etc etc. Of course these molds can be a bit costly, but I find they pay you back pretty quick if you tend to lose a lot of lead to snags.

Another option is if you have a friend with a machine shop and a decent metal lathe or mill. Get hold of a nice bit of scrap aluminium or steel like the pistons off a big engine or the huge pins you can get out of the threads of a caterpillar. Ask your machinist buddy to use his lathe to make you a mold out of the scrap metal, Ishak (one of my Captains) used two old Caterpillar pistons to make a mold for a big chum sinker which is bell shaped.

Well thats all I can sort of come up with for now. Sorry but I don't have any pics. I will try and remember the next time my crew or I decide to stock up on lead for a sinker making session.

There is another option using iron rebar sections but I will add that on to this post at a later time.

Good Luck and BE CAREFUL.

Regards,

Saimee

[ragman]

HI Siamee and all interested

I have been making my own weights for more then 20 yrs and brought the mould from local or stateside. I generally used the Grand Banks style of weights as it does roll about so much on the boat. I have a hight pressure LNG gas stove outside of my house and having mould ranging fraom 3/4 oz to 16 oz, It is normally more then enough for bottom fishing.

However having said that there are some spots in s'pore that we have to used weights to 3 or 4 kgs in 60M of raging current to catch the stupid Kurau or the stupid angler trying to get he quality fish. After a 2/3 years of having a varity of 30 to 40kgs weights on board. I modified the moulds to have a head and standard screw on sections of 550gms a pc thus 3 or 4 pcs is normaly adquate. if it get more then 3 kgs, i kinda give up but there days when the bite is really hot then a fat forummer here will insist that we fish to 5 kg to catch that darn fish.


Some time ago when i fell into the company fo Hong Kong hooker i always machine my own mould set up that can so a varity of weights and hook sizes.

I gte some pics and post it for you guys to have a look see but i havn't figure out how to post here yet so give me some time.

Old tech user high tech forum
Cheers Siamee & Mates
Ragman

[DaFrogman]

Originally Posted by ragman

..spots in s'pore that we have to used weights to 3 or 4 kgs in 60M of raging current to catch the stupid Kurau or the stupid angler trying to get he quality fish. After a 2/3 years of having a varity of 30 to 40kgs weights on board. I modified the moulds to have a head and standard screw on sections of 550gms a pc thus 3 or 4 pcs is normaly adquate. if it get more then 3 kgs, i kinda give up but there days when the bite is really hot then a fat forummer here will insist that we fish to 5 kg to catch that darn fish.


Some time ago when i fell into the company fo Hong Kong hooker i always machine my own mould set up that can so a varity of weights and hook sizes.

I gte some pics and post it for you guys to have a look see but i havn't figure out how to post here yet so give me some time.

Ragman dude,

I still owe you a cowsbell chum sinker. I would just like to say that I have seen Ragman's "screwon section" sinker and it is pretty impressive... He is also quite ingenious in getting the molds machined, I look forward to the pics.

As for the quote section highlighted above, geeeee, I wonder who the insistent angler could be... .

Personally, I am pretty much a pussy when the sinker weights go over 1kg in 300+ft of water... I will usually either giveup or ask for the boat to be repositioned waaaayyyyyy up current of the spot. The streamlined sinkers do make a difference in the currents and I have found that a 1" pipe sinker that is a foot long weighing about 800g will sink a lot faster than just about anything else of comparable weight. The pipe sinkers also resist snagging and spinning in the current. Storing the sinkers on the boat usually involves chucking them in a bucket.... very crude yet effective.

Pics, pics, I will do my best, but am a bit busy at the moment... Ragman, if you have pics in digital format, just send them to Edy or to me or maybe even the Insistent Angler and they'll get posted up.

Saimee.

[Makaira]

Posting on behalf of Ragman

[ragman]

Hi Guys

Thought i share some thoughts on the pics poste by Mak.

1) THe first pic show my high pressure gas burner with my big smelter and pourer, thinking it holds 15kgs +/- and some of my collection of moulds.

2) The 2nd pics (with an small container for scale ) is my custom made mould for my gaint screw on weights each section is approx 450 gms

3) Last pic is my electric lead smelter that hold uo to 10 pds for making HK hook as the mould will slide below the sprout and drip in the right small amounts of lead needed. They use this to make bullets stateside for those that pefered their own hand loads over the ovre counter types of bullets.

Hope these pics will help those who are interested to make their own weights.

Tight lines
Ragman

[DaFrogman]

Mak,

Thanks for posting the pics and Ragman dude, thanks for making them available. Dang!!!!.... 15Kgs of lead, HOLY MAMA thats a big rig.

The reloaders casting jig is just too cool dude, in fact I was looking at some bullet molds the other day and thinking that they would make an awesome jig mould with just a touch of machining.... I could then boast that I was the only guy using sierra boattail jigs....

Sigggghhhhh unfortunately I lack your resources and resourcefulness, but that doesn't stop me from dreaming . You have however given an eye opening few thoughts and ideas of what is possible and we salute you for it.

BTW, could you explain how exactly a Hongkong Hook is used, I have some idea, but nothing beats hearing actual experience on it.

Y'all take care now and Ragman, take care of that oversized luxury Ragman "canoe" of yours...

Regards,

Saimee

[ragman]

Hi Siamee

Actually to make the mould are very simple. I used to pour make a long strip of lead into a mould ( which i'll post the pics of the simple mould and finish product later on ) about 3/8" X 1" X 16" long, basically a small ingot then chop it into 3", 6" , 9" and some of the whole length. Then i bend some 2mm soft S/S thru a drill hole, thus these flat pcs cannot roll about the boat and do strange things to you toes.

After using Grand banks style and these "ruler" style which goes up to about 2+ kgs. When i needed 3+ kgs weights, i decide to do a better job and got some scrap alum and brass and just use a simple bench drill and did the HK hooks and the bigger mould ( 40 mm Dia ) in a lathe. It's actually very cheap and simple if you have some tools. If not just get the brass or Alum. pcs and get any machine shop and they'll surely do it for you with a small cost.

Don't think of buying the Serria style or boat tail shaped mould from the state. They are costly and mostly of cast iron or better quality harden steel so you cannot rework them, just get alum. or brass. I used alum. simply because it really easy to work with and cheap. Brass mould are heavy to hold and costly. Once i did some S/S once, only once never again. It's really difficult to machine etc.

I still have figure how to post pics yet may take a few more months of learning. I'll send the Pics ( that part i know ) to Mak or you guys can post it.

On the subject of using HK hooks. it very basic and effective, use line like 10 to 20 pds and simple tie it to the a baited hook according to current strength. Is basically shallow water fishing to about 20+ m, more then that you can't feel the bite thru the stretch of the mono. You'll detect the slightest bite then quick as you can pull in 3 to 4 arm lengths of mono and fight what is on. It really a killer technique if you'll practice. Strong current deep waters forget it. I have caught huge fishes with style but need a helper to wind lines etc and bandages for you fingers.

The Ragman Canoe is running sweet as a lot of TLC and bank notes have been pour into her just before Chinese New Year. She is like a kid, need new oils, polish, canvas deck chair or in the next year she sulk and don't want to go fishing. Next time you come over we'll take her over and i pass you a bunch of HK hooks.

Tight lines and following seas
Ragman

[ragman]

Oh Guys

One more thing, the electric smelter from stateside come in 10 pds or 20pds and in 110V or 230, mine is 10 pds and 230V. It's reasonablly priced and much safer to use as much less toxic fumes as the sprout is below the molten suface. Sorry for the spellos and gammar, normally don't type/post much so butter brains.

Going fishing now
Ragman

[DaFrogman]

Ragman,

Muchos Gracias for the ton of info on the molds. Excellent stuff dude. I am in the process of adding a proper bench drill to my little workshop, in the meantime, I guess I'll just use the one in my friends machine shop. I certainly understand the problems of drilling and machining stainless steel... I have burnt up a few drill bits too many working on the boat.

The ruler shaped pieces of lead remind me of how they use sash weights in the US for Westcoast deep dropping on rockfish.

I would just add that whilst lead is a very soft metal and should be easy to drill, you may need a drill bit with nice big flutes 'cos the lead shavings very rapidly clog up the bit....

I will definitely keep in mind that electric smelter, not having to breathe any more lead fumes would probably save what few brain cells that are left wandering around in my cranium...

Y'all take care and I would definitely look forward to an outing in the "canoe". Glad to hear that she continues to burn a hole in your pocket .

Saimee

[ragman]

Hi Siamee

Mak will post the pics of my Ruler mould for the FO kakis, basically with these scrap materials you can make a long ruler that is easily chop up with a metal chisel and hammer then as drill a hole near the top and make a loop with 1.5 to 2 mm soft SS wire and you get big weight up to 16” and about 2.5 kg.

Hope you all find all this posting useful.
Ragman

[Makaira]

On behalf of Ragman

[stickbom!]

boy am I glad Saimee lets me use his sinkers... saves me the trouble of carry them onto the plane

[MarkR]

First time viewing this thread. Really hardcore stuff! Take my hat off to Ragman The amount of preparation and effort put into making leads alone is incredible. The modular sinkers are pretty cool...seen some of these at Poh Huat a long time ago but they are not stocked any longer. Who ever said that serious bottom fishing was easy? Sourcing and stocking up on good fresh bait alone takes so much time...come to think of it, it's actually easier in many ways to prepare for a jig/pop trip

[a1vin]

Originally Posted by ragman

Hi Siamee

Actually to make the mould are very simple. I used to pour make a long strip of lead into a mould ( which i'll post the pics of the simple mould and finish product later on ) about 3/8" X 1" X 16" long, basically a small ingot then chop it into 3", 6" , 9" and some of the whole length. Then i bend some 2mm soft S/S thru a drill hole, thus these flat pcs cannot roll about the boat and do strange things to you toes.

After using Grand banks style and these "ruler" style which goes up to about 2+ kgs. When i needed 3+ kgs weights, i decide to do a better job and got some scrap alum and brass and just use a simple bench drill and did the HK hooks and the bigger mould ( 40 mm Dia ) in a lathe. It's actually very cheap and simple if you have some tools. If not just get the brass or Alum. pcs and get any machine shop and they'll surely do it for you with a small cost.

Don't think of buying the Serria style or boat tail shaped mould from the state. They are costly and mostly of cast iron or better quality harden steel so you cannot rework them, just get alum. or brass. I used alum. simply because it really easy to work with and cheap. Brass mould are heavy to hold and costly. Once i did some S/S once, only once never again. It's really difficult to machine etc.

I still have figure how to post pics yet may take a few more months of learning. I'll send the Pics ( that part i know ) to Mak or you guys can post it.

On the subject of using HK hooks. it very basic and effective, use line like 10 to 20 pds and simple tie it to the a baited hook according to current strength. Is basically shallow water fishing to about 20+ m, more then that you can't feel the bite thru the stretch of the mono. You'll detect the slightest bite then quick as you can pull in 3 to 4 arm lengths of mono and fight what is on. It really a killer technique if you'll practice. Strong current deep waters forget it. I have caught huge fishes with style but need a helper to wind lines etc and bandages for you fingers.

The Ragman Canoe is running sweet as a lot of TLC and bank notes have been pour into her just before Chinese New Year. She is like a kid, need new oils, polish, canvas deck chair or in the next year she sulk and don't want to go fishing. Next time you come over we'll take her over and i pass you a bunch of HK hooks.

Tight lines and following seas
Ragman

Yo Ragman...
Nice to know that such hardwrking Fisherman's around ... Would like to see ya on action someday ..

Any idea where i can get BIG weighted HK hook...? i wanna try using it in deep waters 30-45M .. locally =)

Rgds
Alvin

[O-Toro]

Hey Ragman, Can you send me an email? I'd like to learn from you and maybe experience some weight / sinker making tricks. I just keep loosing them!