Bluewater Fishing Expedition

Makaira · 08-12-2005, 01:04 PM

A little bit of both I think

Jigging 10 hours a day with no hits, day in, day out ..... that I call dedication ..... with a healthy dose of obsession or insanity, and of course super fit physical condition. Refusing to use bait to hook up a "cow" that were on a feeding frenzy just for the experience ......... now ...... that is anal.

What do you guys think ? Stickbom, what do you think? I believe you have corresponded with that gentleman in the past

http://www.caranx.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1959

This post is not intended to insult or make fun of the angler's achievement or fishing choices. Just thought this would be a nice topic for discussion

Some of the Americans & our "local boy" Dustin Foo have also chimed in to voice their opinions on this subject too. Interesting.

http://www.allcoastsportfishing.com/...ode=full&page=

Makaira · 08-12-2005, 03:11 PM

I think to be less "offensive" perhaps the word PURIST rather than Anal should be used. I stand corrected.

Dynaway · 08-12-2005, 06:54 PM

wahaha. i think like tat if he got 0 fish will sure bang balls... lucky got some catch for him to talk abt. if not the post wont be even up

stickbom! · 08-12-2005, 06:59 PM

WAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Been there done that (the jigging without getting a bite bit) I guess it's not the joy of putting a fish in the boat we're talking about here... it's HOW you catch it. If everyone can hook a COW with bait easy, then it must be a personal achievement to hook one on lure. I can probably lob a live 2kg rainbow runner up against the rocks in GT-ish looking places and choke a big mama GT half to death with it but that's just a whole different ball game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying using bait is always easier because there's always some unique way/technique to do it. At the end of the day, the guy using a jig enjoys himself working up a sweat while lazy blokes like myself have a great time too, waiting for my rod tip to slam down in the rod holder (with a beer in hand)

DaFrogman · 09-12-2005, 12:30 AM

Well guys, to be honest I take my hat off to the guy.... I've "chatted" once or twice with him on other forums and his posts always struck me as someone who enjoyed what he did and is obviously a heck of a lot more dedicated then I will ever be..... As Mak did observe, "Anal" might be a touch strong, obsessed would be a better alternative...maybe even manically driven.

From the almost predictable response on Allcoast (I actually winced when I read his post 'cos I knew what was coming), I get the feeling that some fishermen all over the world are the same, i.e. set in their ways and dead sure that their way and their gear is the only way to go to catch a certain species. Sure, their confidence is based upon tried and true techniques, but if all fishermen were like that I reckon we would all be using linen handlines still.... I seem to recall not too long ago that many from that side of the world said the Trinidad would never catch on and that spectra was no good etc etc etc...different techniques and the quest for a better mousetrap are what drives innovation in everything, not just the tackle industry.

If you can land certain monster fish on an outfit that is smaller, lighter and faster, heck why not go for it, but until somebody tries it, we'll never know. I'd be interested to know what happened to his Saltiga after it froze up. It almost sounds like the bearings overheated and just locked up and after they cooled back down, the reel went back to normal. Who knows, I reckon that with reels like a 2 speed Torsa and maybe something else round the corner with a revolutionary clutch based drag system, maybe even variable gear ratios (imagine being able to dial in your gear ratios infinitely through a certain range on a fish...) or even, maybe the first all Titanium reel.... lots of things out there that could be done if anglers keep trying new stuff.

Up till then, there is still a whole bunch of new and current stuff for poverty stricken tackle Hos like myself to lust after....Mikey, those Seekers are calling and I am dodging calls from the bank manager....

Respectfully y'all,

Saimee

Makaira · 09-12-2005, 01:50 AM

It was actually a pretty interesting choice of reel. He had on standby a Torsa 30 set at 30# strike drag. Yet his reel of choice was the Saltiga. I wonder why?

For whatever reason the Saltiga ceased up, IMHO, it is possible evidence that a more powerful lever drag reel may be more suitable for the job at hand. I couldn't imagine that even the Daiwa engineers intended for the Saltiga 50 to tango with a 250 pound YellowFin Tuna

One thing's for sure, my hat off to him for having the balls to use an 8 foot rod for the task. The hardcore long rangers were probably thinking Kil must be somewhat off his rockers. I have a GUSA Wahoo built for popping. Contrary to what some might think, it is well balanced, casts great & is gangbusters for GT. This is one muther of a powerful stick!!! I definitely would not even dream of using it for jigging though.

My initial choice of semantics i.e. "anal" was because I couldn't believe that he simply refused to use bait eventhough big fish were landed left, right & centre. Purist though he is, I would have at least wanted to hookup to a real cow to see how the gear performed. As luck would have it, he finally did get one, but the reel failed on him.

Yo Saimee, if you knew post 200 pounder YellowFin Tunas were a certainty, would you have used a Saltiga; or a Jigger for that matter?

stickbom! · 09-12-2005, 06:43 AM

I'll dump the jigs for a sardine... but will attempt to land the COW on my Stella 20K :P

Makaira · 09-12-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickbom!

I'll dump the jigs for a sardine... but will attempt to land the COW on my Stella 20K :P

Dude .... bring your Stella 20K to target our local "cow" Prata lah!!! If you hit one, guarantee you a good workout!!! Fantastic way to fine-tune your techniques. Better than catching trees or motorbikes

DaFrogman · 09-12-2005, 09:15 PM

Hehehe....

Mak, if I knew that 200lb cows were grazing, my first reaction would have been to reach for the reel he used after the Saltiga got screwed i.e. the AVET EX ..... but then dude, I ain't suicidal..... I reckon that a 665 would not have met the same problem as the Saltiga 50 as long as the shaft e-clip held. That said, I too wonder why he didn't use the Torsa 30... I for one would have given it a go, if it spooled me I would just salute the fish...

If everyone around me was hammering cows on livebait, believe me I would have the biggest sardine in the tank nose hooked and in the water faster than you could say "Moooo!!!", Master Song's perseverance is just unbelieveable and I mean that in the good sense of the word.

As for the 8 foot rod, well Mak, you know my penchance for short rods, 6ft is the max for me, 5'6" is even better, which is why most of my cannons are now based on _ _ 55H/XH/XXH blanks now. I have felt the pain that even a 7ft 24kg class rod can do to you in a small boat situation.... not recommended unless you can run lighter drags with minimal chance of being busted off.

Sighhh, the crews just got back from a trip I couldn't go on.... they got some nice big MJs, but the seas are finally waking up to the fact that its the end of the year and nobody should be out on the water.... as of this afternoon, swells were 6ft and over. I am finishing the final stages of wiring spotlights, an additional bilge pump and modifying some stainless steel work on our big boat, as well as sorting out some fuel suppy problems with one of our Racor filters... hopefully we can squeeze one more trip in next week.

Regards,

Saimee

Makaira · 10-12-2005, 04:55 PM

Hi Saimee,

Hahahahaha!!! I wouldn't even be looking at using the 665 or any of the pocket rockets in such a situation. An Avet EX 4/0 narrow, ATD 12 or 30 matched with a GF 760M would be the minimum in my books. I would not have any problems jigging with any of those combinations based on Sifu Song's observation that long slow strokes to work the jigs were needed to entice the grazing cows.

You really hardcore huh??? Still want a Finale III. Please becareful buddy. I am sure you don't need me to remind you that it is only fishing. There is always next season. Do take care.

Best regards,
Makaira

DaFrogman · 11-12-2005, 01:10 PM

Thanks for the quiet advice Mak,

Like I said I'm not suicidal....hehehehehe...... Whilst being quite masochistic, even my crazy hardcore crew don't head out in really lousy seas, for the simple reason that the bottom fish usually go off the bite during periods of low atmospheric pressure....i.e. when it blows.

Will look for a window next week, but its up to the big dude upstairs if we get to fish...

Y'all hang tight there, tight lines, good knots...

Saimee

Makaira · 11-12-2005, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFrogman

for the simple reason that the bottom fish usually go off the bite during periods of low atmospheric pressure....i.e. when it blows.

Hi Saimee,

This is an interesting observation. Were you referring to prolonged low pressure periods due to weather systems like a typhoon.

My observation is that a sudden drop in the barometer, for example a passing storm, often result in a burst of feeding frenzy. This has to me happened many times before. Do you have the same experience?

Best regards,
Makaira

DaFrogman · 11-12-2005, 11:05 PM

Mak,

What I noticed in terms of passing storms and squalls, when the mercury plummets, is that just before, i.e. some 30 minutes before the arrival of the storm, you get a burst of feeding like you described, during the storm, the bite just disappears totally and after the storm, it will take a couple of hours before the fish come back online...

Of course the length of time it takes to come back for the fish to get back in the mood can vary with the current etc etc..... If I recall correctly, I read about a theory in a Malaysian fishing magazine about the possible impact of low atmospheric pressure on bottom fish with swim bladders and that they might experience discomfort or problems with depth control... just food for thought dude...

Regards,

Saimee

08-12-2005, 01:04 PM	#1
Makaira Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 746 Rep Power: 5	Dedication To Technique ... or Is It Simply Anal? A little bit of both I think Jigging 10 hours a day with no hits, day in, day out ..... that I call dedication ..... with a healthy dose of obsession or insanity, and of course super fit physical condition. Refusing to use bait to hook up a "cow" that were on a feeding frenzy just for the experience ......... now ...... that is anal. What do you guys think ? Stickbom, what do you think? I believe you have corresponded with that gentleman in the past http://www.caranx.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1959 This post is not intended to insult or make fun of the angler's achievement or fishing choices. Just thought this would be a nice topic for discussion Some of the Americans & our "local boy" Dustin Foo have also chimed in to voice their opinions on this subject too. Interesting. http://www.allcoastsportfishing.com/...ode=full&page=

08-12-2005, 06:54 PM	#3
Dynaway Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Stinkapore Posts: 290 My Mood: Rep Power: 4	wahaha. i think like tat if he got 0 fish will sure bang balls... lucky got some catch for him to talk abt. if not the post wont be even up __________________ "No man will work for your interests, unless they are his" "All animals are equal, some are more equal than others" "If i've to beg, i rather not have" My Fishing Photos

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08-12-2005, 03:11 PM	#2
Makaira Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 746 Rep Power: 5	I think to be less "offensive" perhaps the word PURIST rather than Anal should be used. I stand corrected.

08-12-2005, 06:59 PM	#4
stickbom! Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Eastern Sider Posts: 2,053 My Mood: Rep Power: 7	WAHAHAHAHAHAHA Been there done that (the jigging without getting a bite bit) I guess it's not the joy of putting a fish in the boat we're talking about here... it's HOW you catch it. If everyone can hook a COW with bait easy, then it must be a personal achievement to hook one on lure. I can probably lob a live 2kg rainbow runner up against the rocks in GT-ish looking places and choke a big mama GT half to death with it but that's just a whole different ball game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying using bait is always easier because there's always some unique way/technique to do it. At the end of the day, the guy using a jig enjoys himself working up a sweat while lazy blokes like myself have a great time too, waiting for my rod tip to slam down in the rod holder (with a beer in hand)

09-12-2005, 12:30 AM	#5
DaFrogman Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brunei Posts: 759 My Mood: Rep Power: 4	Well guys, to be honest I take my hat off to the guy.... I've "chatted" once or twice with him on other forums and his posts always struck me as someone who enjoyed what he did and is obviously a heck of a lot more dedicated then I will ever be..... As Mak did observe, "Anal" might be a touch strong, obsessed would be a better alternative...maybe even manically driven. From the almost predictable response on Allcoast (I actually winced when I read his post 'cos I knew what was coming), I get the feeling that some fishermen all over the world are the same, i.e. set in their ways and dead sure that their way and their gear is the only way to go to catch a certain species. Sure, their confidence is based upon tried and true techniques, but if all fishermen were like that I reckon we would all be using linen handlines still.... I seem to recall not too long ago that many from that side of the world said the Trinidad would never catch on and that spectra was no good etc etc etc...different techniques and the quest for a better mousetrap are what drives innovation in everything, not just the tackle industry. If you can land certain monster fish on an outfit that is smaller, lighter and faster, heck why not go for it, but until somebody tries it, we'll never know. I'd be interested to know what happened to his Saltiga after it froze up. It almost sounds like the bearings overheated and just locked up and after they cooled back down, the reel went back to normal. Who knows, I reckon that with reels like a 2 speed Torsa and maybe something else round the corner with a revolutionary clutch based drag system, maybe even variable gear ratios (imagine being able to dial in your gear ratios infinitely through a certain range on a fish...) or even, maybe the first all Titanium reel.... lots of things out there that could be done if anglers keep trying new stuff. Up till then, there is still a whole bunch of new and current stuff for poverty stricken tackle Hos like myself to lust after....Mikey, those Seekers are calling and I am dodging calls from the bank manager.... Respectfully y'all, Saimee

09-12-2005, 01:50 AM	#6
Makaira Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 746 Rep Power: 5	It was actually a pretty interesting choice of reel. He had on standby a Torsa 30 set at 30# strike drag. Yet his reel of choice was the Saltiga. I wonder why? For whatever reason the Saltiga ceased up, IMHO, it is possible evidence that a more powerful lever drag reel may be more suitable for the job at hand. I couldn't imagine that even the Daiwa engineers intended for the Saltiga 50 to tango with a 250 pound YellowFin Tuna One thing's for sure, my hat off to him for having the balls to use an 8 foot rod for the task. The hardcore long rangers were probably thinking Kil must be somewhat off his rockers. I have a GUSA Wahoo built for popping. Contrary to what some might think, it is well balanced, casts great & is gangbusters for GT. This is one muther of a powerful stick!!! I definitely would not even dream of using it for jigging though. My initial choice of semantics i.e. "anal" was because I couldn't believe that he simply refused to use bait eventhough big fish were landed left, right & centre. Purist though he is, I would have at least wanted to hookup to a real cow to see how the gear performed. As luck would have it, he finally did get one, but the reel failed on him. Yo Saimee, if you knew post 200 pounder YellowFin Tunas were a certainty, would you have used a Saltiga; or a Jigger for that matter?

09-12-2005, 06:43 AM	#7
stickbom! Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Eastern Sider Posts: 2,053 My Mood: Rep Power: 7	I'll dump the jigs for a sardine... but will attempt to land the COW on my Stella 20K :P

09-12-2005, 09:15 PM	#9
DaFrogman Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brunei Posts: 759 My Mood: Rep Power: 4	Hehehe.... Mak, if I knew that 200lb cows were grazing, my first reaction would have been to reach for the reel he used after the Saltiga got screwed i.e. the AVET EX ..... but then dude, I ain't suicidal..... I reckon that a 665 would not have met the same problem as the Saltiga 50 as long as the shaft e-clip held. That said, I too wonder why he didn't use the Torsa 30... I for one would have given it a go, if it spooled me I would just salute the fish... If everyone around me was hammering cows on livebait, believe me I would have the biggest sardine in the tank nose hooked and in the water faster than you could say "Moooo!!!", Master Song's perseverance is just unbelieveable and I mean that in the good sense of the word. As for the 8 foot rod, well Mak, you know my penchance for short rods, 6ft is the max for me, 5'6" is even better, which is why most of my cannons are now based on _ _ 55H/XH/XXH blanks now. I have felt the pain that even a 7ft 24kg class rod can do to you in a small boat situation.... not recommended unless you can run lighter drags with minimal chance of being busted off. Sighhh, the crews just got back from a trip I couldn't go on.... they got some nice big MJs, but the seas are finally waking up to the fact that its the end of the year and nobody should be out on the water.... as of this afternoon, swells were 6ft and over. I am finishing the final stages of wiring spotlights, an additional bilge pump and modifying some stainless steel work on our big boat, as well as sorting out some fuel suppy problems with one of our Racor filters... hopefully we can squeeze one more trip in next week. Regards, Saimee

10-12-2005, 04:55 PM	#10
Makaira Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 746 Rep Power: 5	Hi Saimee, Hahahahaha!!! I wouldn't even be looking at using the 665 or any of the pocket rockets in such a situation. An Avet EX 4/0 narrow, ATD 12 or 30 matched with a GF 760M would be the minimum in my books. I would not have any problems jigging with any of those combinations based on Sifu Song's observation that long slow strokes to work the jigs were needed to entice the grazing cows. You really hardcore huh??? Still want a Finale III. Please becareful buddy. I am sure you don't need me to remind you that it is only fishing. There is always next season. Do take care. Best regards, Makaira

11-12-2005, 01:10 PM	#11
DaFrogman Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brunei Posts: 759 My Mood: Rep Power: 4	Thanks for the quiet advice Mak, Like I said I'm not suicidal....hehehehehe...... Whilst being quite masochistic, even my crazy hardcore crew don't head out in really lousy seas, for the simple reason that the bottom fish usually go off the bite during periods of low atmospheric pressure....i.e. when it blows. Will look for a window next week, but its up to the big dude upstairs if we get to fish... Y'all hang tight there, tight lines, good knots... Saimee

11-12-2005, 11:05 PM	#13
DaFrogman Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Brunei Posts: 759 My Mood: Rep Power: 4	Mak, What I noticed in terms of passing storms and squalls, when the mercury plummets, is that just before, i.e. some 30 minutes before the arrival of the storm, you get a burst of feeding like you described, during the storm, the bite just disappears totally and after the storm, it will take a couple of hours before the fish come back online... Of course the length of time it takes to come back for the fish to get back in the mood can vary with the current etc etc..... If I recall correctly, I read about a theory in a Malaysian fishing magazine about the possible impact of low atmospheric pressure on bottom fish with swim bladders and that they might experience discomfort or problems with depth control... just food for thought dude... Regards, Saimee

Bluewater Fishing Expedition

Dedication To Technique ... or Is It Simply Anal?

Dedication To Technique ... or Is It Simply Anal?